Consistent and inconsistently bike shutting off

[Laitch]

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.  Service and maintenance on your bike, or any machine for that matter, is just like foreplay.

Furthermore, you'll appreciate how it satisfies unrequited longing when you enter your sunset years, apparently.

[KJM00]

The confidence from this group is awe-inspiring.  :clap:   So Just to narrow it down, i pulled my fuel sensor, and made sure that the contacts to the sensor were all in order, they looked new as the day they were made, very obviously nothing wrong with the contact points.  I pulled the fuel pump again just to pull it and test it, and sure enough its working flawlessly off the tank.  So this is where I'm thinking right now,(well attempting to remain positive) So Pump is working off bike, but not on bike, so clearly it's not getting power(or enough), well the fuse is flawless, and the relay is flawless, and when the four pin is connected the Fuel Sensor is reading that the fuel is low, so it's receiving power at least for that part of the plug, leaves me with the traced Yellow Positive wire that runs from the 4 pin connector all the way to where it mounts onto the Fuel Pump itself.  I suspect that either the connection point to the that specific pin that yields the yellow wire is either NOT making contact, or simply has a short within the wire.  The Four pin female side looks really clean from what i can tell, but I think that leaves me with purchasing some deoxit, trying that, and if that doesnt work perhaps the Trailer plug idea.  Thanks for all the help along the way guys, I'm trying to remain positive and say I've got it narrowed down...I hope... :dunno

[Laitch]

The Four pin female side looks really clean from what i can tell, but I think that leaves me with purchasing some deoxit, trying that, and if that doesnt work perhaps the Trailer plug idea. 

Is your battery all charged up? There's been relay swapping going on today. Maybe it's your turn. If your horn works, try swapping its relay with the fuel pump's. You'll need to lift the tank to do that. Locations are in the troubleshooting guide in the Technical Library. Be certain you're swapping the correct relays. The last person who did this discovered he swapped the wrong stuff the first time. He eventually got it right.

Haven't heard from him since.  :dunno2:

[jakgieger]

Is your battery all charged up? There's been relay swapping going on today. Maybe it's your turn. If your horn works, try swapping its relay with the fuel pump's. You'll need to lift the tank to do that. Locations are in the troubleshooting guide in the Technical Library. Be certain your swapping the correct relays. The last person who did this discovered he swapped the wrong stuff the first time. He eventually got it right.

Haven't heard from him since.  :dunno2:

Either your slipping or you're grammerly is off Laitch

[KJM00]

Battery is brand new and has been on the trickle charger in between tests which have been about an hour-two a day, I did sub relays and the fuel pump relay worked with the horn and headlight, so I suspect that relay should still be fine, Fairly certain it's not a relay issue, but you can never be too sure i suppose.

[Elipten]

You clean that ground wire to the transmission?




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[KJM00]

I have not; I'm not entirely sure how that would play into the Fuel Pump working, but I can give it a shot. :dunno2:

[jakgieger]

Electrical gremlins have very unusual footprints...The ground on the tranny, the one underneath the gas tank, and the ground path through the starter are ALL critical to proper operation.

[Elipten]

The starter is a strange one, but after experiencing it and then taking the starter apart and cleaning the starter one becomes a believer


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[KJM00]

Alright, so if were starting from the beginning of the troubleshooting chart this is what's happened so far:
Problem Completely Narrowed down: Fuel Pump was working intermittently, occasionally has worked twice now for seconds and then won't work again.
Step 1 Basic Troubleshooting:  Fuse and Relays checked (Swapped the headlight and Fuel Pump Relay, fuel pump still didn't work, but the headlight sure did.), all very pristine. Ignition Switch most certainly fine, Kill Switch not currently engaged, Transmission in Neutral, Clutch In, Fuel Pump Connector on Fuel Tank connected and All Battery Connections properly seated.   
Step 2: Ground Connections, the ground connection between the (-) and the side of the transmission cleaned, and tested, wonderful,  The (#9 on the chart) Transmission Ground, sanded, cleaned with electrical cleaner, and properly seated and mounted.  Took apart Key ignition switch, all connections cleaned, and looks properly mounted, no break in an wire or corrosion. 
Step 3: Replaced Fuel Filter, removed fuel pump checked for damage, very pristine, ran outside of tank and worked flawlessly multiple testing attempts.  Proceeded to Remove Fuel Tank Sensor(the Sensor that provides power to the pump) and checked the base for wire corrosion, but unfortunately also completely pristine and no damage to the sensor at the base where all of the wires meet, or along the power positive/negative that's provided to the pump from said sensor. 
At this point I decided to try again for about the 10th time, what the heck kind of try, plugged the tank in and for a second the fuel pump was kicking over and spewing gas out, so very carefully we remounted it on the bike, plugged the fuel hose into the rail, made sure the breather hose wasnt bent or being restricted, solid connection on the four pin, tried to turn the bike on and nothing, fuel pump stopped working all together, and no fuel was coming out of the fuel hose when pulled from the fuel rail.  I had this happen twice now after cleaning things, and putting things back together, but not always in succession would the pump kick over, the only thing that remained constant was the fuel tank being unplugged and plugged back in to receive power and we'd hear the pump kick over well the hose wasn't mounted to the fuel rail.
Step 4: Decided I really thought it was the fuel tank four-pin connector being my problem child with intermittent connectivity even after cleaning it, so i decided to buy proper fitting four trailer 4-pin connectors and took my time making a really pretty perfect soldered connection on all four wires on both sides and established a new four pin connection on both sides, plugged them in, lowered the fuel in the tank again to make sure the sensor was working, well it was plugged in and sure enough it reflected low fuel, put some more fuel in the tank, attempted to start it, and no dice on the fuel pump kicking over in the slightest at this point. 
Feeling a bit defeated at that point, realizing it wasn't the connectors at all, but that I must have just been stupid and not knowing how to properly diagnose my multi-meter readings, but I have to suspect that it's an electrical wire short in the wire that goes from my fuel tank/Fuel Sensor to the female side where it's receiving power.  My Brother who was helping me use a multi-meter told me that he suspects that my tank is grounding to my frame and that-that may be the issue, but that he's not entirely sure if that's what's going on...I have hit the end of my troubleshooting chart and I'm not sure if I'm skilled enough to diagnose this without proper training... Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated; it is possible I've overlooked something, but I feel like I've touched every base.
So as to lighten my mood of getting my D*&% knocked in the dirt time and time again, I put new brake fluid in the front and rear reservoir and properly bled my brakes, a lot of shit came out of the front brakes...(Could tell they needed it, were really low and there was some flaky crud in there from neglect.) Felt really good to actually see some of my work achieving positive end results this evening, after a few weeks of bashing my head on a cement wall. :bang-head:

[Martin]

Undo your four pin plug and set your multimeter on ohms. then put one end of the multimeter on the pos + supply wire going into the tank put the other end of the multimeter on the pos +on the fuel pump in the tank. Wriggle the wires and see if you loose continuity, now do the same with the neg - wire. Report back the results, you are testing to see if there is a break in the wires.
Regards Martin.

[jakgieger]

KJM, Where are you at on this?  It appears from your information that you are working in the right direction.  It sounds like you have attacked the simple culprits (grounds and the 4 pin connector).  As per Laitch's request, you should be following the flow chart.  Do you understand what Martin is saying on how to use a multimeter to detect continuity (used to determine that a wire/connection is "intact")??  If so, per the flowchart, you have to go "upstream" in the electrical supply for the pump.  You need to find the point where the failure is occurring.  Do this one step at a time (flowchart).  Do NOT assume anything.  Do NOT proceed to the next step until you understand the current step and it's role in the function of your bike.  The reward here is that you are gaining an intimate understanding of the bike and mechanics in general.  With this knowledge, you will free yourself from the tyranny of half-assed  mechanics AND gain a personal sense of accomplishment.  Step back if necessary, but Keep Going!

[KJM00]

On that troubleshooting chart, I've hit every base, and that's where were at with it being a short/damaged line.

[Martin]

Using a multimeter set on ohms as outlined will generally find a broken wire. Wriggle and test wriggle and test. Think of it as wax on wax off.
Regards Martin.

[KJM00]

On my next troubleshooting session, I'll give it a try, thanks Martin.

[jakgieger]

On that troubleshooting chart, I've hit every base, and that's where were at with it being a short/damaged line.

If you have hit every base, you would have a culprit .  I am talking about the blue and red chart where you follow the electricity.  Every step is a question...you either answer yes or no (green line=yes red line =no).  According to the info you have given, you have a bad wire (+ or -) between the pump and the relay.  I suspect it is not this simple and that you are overlooking something.  But if this is the case, use jumper wires to confirm you have voltage and a ground at the pump (continuity).  You could also add pictures of your process that might assist others in helping you.  The sending unit on the bottom of the tank has been known to fail.  If you remove it, you must use a new Oring.  There is no magic bullet here, just a frustrating problem that can be solved.  I am not a mechanic, just a farmer educated at the school of hard knocks.  If you want to trailer it 90 miles, I could look at the bike in person, and you could compare tests to a running bike!

[KJM00]

Very much appreciated, and maybe if it comes to that point it might not be a bad idea, heh.    Yeah I'll have to follow the wiring diagram after taking appropriate troubleshooting steps of the wires and find where the fault exists.  So it'd be applicable to say that's where I'm at on the troubleshooting stage.

[Martin]

Find where you have power pos + and work your way outwards. Do the same with neg -. It is a slow painful job do not drink while you are doing this save that for later. This job can be confusing while sober. A copy of the wiring diagram is handy while you are doing this and you can mark what you have done. Unfortunately this job needs you to be approached in a concise and consistent manner which can be hard once your memory starts going. What was I saying, who are you, where am I?
Better go take my medication regards Martin.

[KJM00]

Took an hour this evening to dismount the fuel sensor/pump again, and tested the Green/Brown (respective Positive negative that run to the pump.  And it works without issue!  So that tells me the problem actually isn't isolated to the tank...So now I suspect it's from the female side that connects into the four pin connector that connects into the bosch four pin that connects to the ignition.  I'll have to strip the covering on the wire, but that leaves me with about 10 inches and four wires to diagnose as I've already pulled the starter and it looked quite wonderful.  So i can say with the utmost confidence the tank is in order, cleaned and everything is appropriated within the tank.  (May have to include pictures to make sense of what I'm saying, but isolated it appeared all was in order)

[White Dog]

Just one more simple thing you could try.  Pull the 4 pin connector going to the gas tank.  Look closely at the female side and compare the diameter of each and then compare the diameter of each male pin.  You might see one or more female receptacles larger than the mating male pins.  If so, carefully insert a knife blade end (or similar) between the plastic and the metal female plug and bend slightly to narrow the opening.  I did this to all 4 of mine, as the female receptacles were larger in diameter than the male pins.  Now, the pins fit tightly and all is well.  I fought with a non-functioning fuel pump for about 2 weeks when the repair took all of 5 minutes.

[KJM00]

I have fashioned a new four pin connector on both side and am certain the four pin itself is all making proper contact, so it's just slightly upstream from the four pin connector, but is technically still within the four pin connector.  So I just have to find that short wire on the female side, but my original bosch four pin is now a really solid setting trailer four pin connector, and properly seated.

[White Dog]

I assume you have tested for 12 V on the fuse?  How about continuity of the wiring to the fuel pump plug from the fuse panel?

[KJM00]

Indeed, both have been thoroughly checked, multiple times to assure I'm not overlooking the easy stuff

[White Dog]

Do you have a good ground connection?

[KJM00]

I know it's been a very long time since I visited this post, but I just wanted to submit the resolution: The inside of the FI Relay female center prong terminal was burnt out and making little/no connection.  Thankfully it's been resolved and i've put about 100 miles + on it since then, I have a trip to Colorado planned in a month, very excited to get her out and about.  :riding:   Felt like this post needed the closure.