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Author Topic: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS  (Read 263612 times)

Offline Laitch

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #125 on: November 25, 2016, 02:59:17 PM »

Quote from: MaraudeRS on November 25, 2016, 02:53:52 PM
I'm grateful that you're excited about this
Don't waste time replying. Go put up the side stand, change the plug ends, record the clunk and come back here with some more excitement!
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #126 on: November 25, 2016, 03:02:37 PM »
Quote from: Laitch on November 25, 2016, 02:59:17 PM
Don't waste time replying. Go put up the side stand, change the plug ends, record the clunk and come back here with some more excitement!
It's on the center stand not side stand. It won't start on the center stand?


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline Laitch

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #127 on: November 25, 2016, 03:05:45 PM »

Quote from: MaraudeRS on November 25, 2016, 03:02:37 PM
It won't start on the center stand?
What did you think Gryph meant in his last post? If the side stand is up, go change the plug ends or put the old plugs in, and record the clunk. I can't stand this level of anticipation much longer.
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #128 on: November 25, 2016, 04:44:39 PM »
Killed the battery. Recharging now. I put the side stand down and my neutral indicator light still hasn't come on. I'll send a video of the fuel pump sound next


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #129 on: November 25, 2016, 06:04:11 PM »
I am confused.  Does the starter turn the engine over or does it just spin itself?  If the engine isn't turning the sprag isn't working.  If the sprag isn't working why are we farting around with the plugs?
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #130 on: November 25, 2016, 06:07:00 PM »
The starter just spins itself, no engine turn over. I'm not sure if it's a fuel issue tho. I'll have to look into what the sprag is and why it would keep the engine from firing up. Thx


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #131 on: November 25, 2016, 06:24:05 PM »
When you say the engine doesn't turn over do you mean the engine won't fire, or do you mean the starter isn't turning the crank shaft?   This makes a BIG difference in where to be looking for problems.

The neutral indicator is a separate issue.  All it does is stop the starter from running when the transmission is in gear.  As long as the starter is turning now I would ignore the fact that the green neutral indicator isn't coming on.

The side stand on 4 valve engines stops the spark when it is down.  it must be up to get the plugs to spark and ignite the fuel.  The centerstand is NOT interlocked to the ignition.  The engine can be started when the bike is on the centerstand.
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #132 on: November 25, 2016, 06:38:39 PM »
The engine won't fire. All I hear is the starter trying to start the engine.


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline The Dude

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #133 on: November 25, 2016, 06:40:42 PM »
Looks like the mechanical sprag clutch is slipping so doesn't "grip" the internal combustion crank shaft so not turning the engine or as we used to say cranking it.
I "bump"start my bike regularly,ie switch the key ignition on,kill switch in the run position,select second or third gear and get some body to push you at speed with the clutch pulled in and at some point when the pusher is about to collapse with exhaustion release the clutch lever to get the motor cranking.(push start).Normally this would fire up the motor.go for a good ride and if you switch the motor off it is convenient to do so at the top of (or part way up)a hill so you can repeat the starting procedure without the person pushing.You could take them with you,of course but....
Look up sprag clutch on this site as there are some easy if a bit hopeful ways of sorting it out...best of luck.
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  • Auckland, New Zealand
  • K75s
Current.
TR6R 1973 from new.
Moto guzzi 850 III .1983 from,almost, new.
K75S 1986 from new.vin-0103141
On my second millionth km.give or take a hundred k Kay's.
"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there."
All the best!

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #134 on: November 25, 2016, 07:00:32 PM »
Your terminology is very confusing. 

When we say the engine is "turning over" or "cranking" we mean that the starter is turning the crankshaft and the valves and pistons are moving doing the mechanical stuff to start the engine.  It has nothing to do with the engine firing and running.  When you say your engine isn't turning over we think the crankshaft isn't turning.  I have asked several times for clarification and you still can't provide it.

Simple yes/no question.  Is the crankshaft turning?

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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #135 on: November 25, 2016, 07:02:00 PM »
Quote from: The Mighty Gryphon on November 25, 2016, 07:00:32 PM
Your terminology is very confusing. 

When we say the engine is "turning over" or "cranking" we mean that the starter is turning the crankshaft and the valves and pistons are moving doing the mechanical stuff to start the engine.  It has nothing to do with the engine firing and running.  When you say your engine isn't turning over we think the crankshaft isn't turning.  I have asked several times for clarification and you still can't provide it.

Simple yes/no question.  Is the crankshaft turning?
Sorry, obviously I'm extremely new to mechanics. No it isn't.


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #136 on: November 25, 2016, 07:11:11 PM »
Quote from: The Dude on November 25, 2016, 06:40:42 PM
Looks like the mechanical sprag clutch is slipping so doesn't "grip" the internal combustion crank shaft so not turning the engine or as we used to say cranking it.
I "bump"start my bike regularly,ie switch the key ignition on,kill switch in the run position,select second or third gear and get some body to push you at speed with the clutch pulled in and at some point when the pusher is about to collapse with exhaustion release the clutch lever to get the motor cranking.(push start).Normally this would fire up the motor.go for a good ride and if you switch the motor off it is convenient to do so at the top of (or part way up)a hill so you can repeat the starting procedure without the person pushing.You could take them with you,of course but....
Look up sprag clutch on this site as there are some easy if a bit hopeful ways of sorting it out...best of luck.
Thank you for this. My rear brake pads just arrived today so as soon as I get the rear wheel back on I'll try this. I need to service the front brake l, also, first before I even try to ride it. One of the screws stripped on the reservoir for the front brakes so I still need to extract it so I can service it.


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #137 on: November 25, 2016, 07:23:52 PM »
Ok, so when you push the starter button what you hear is just the whirring sound of an electric motor spinning with nothing being moved.  Is that correct?

Is this whirring sound coming from behind the ignition coils where the starter motor is located?
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline Vespa no more

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #138 on: November 26, 2016, 03:36:14 AM »
Where's that paper bag?


Deep breaths.


Inhale.


Exhale.


(insert Laitch-esque imogee HERE)
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  • Wollongong NSW AUSTRALIA
  • K100RT 1984, K1100RT 1993, Vespa VNB125 1963 :)

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #139 on: November 26, 2016, 09:04:30 AM »
Wish I knew what the heck I'm trying to help him fix.
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  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline MaraudeRS

  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 250
Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #140 on: November 26, 2016, 11:38:50 AM »
Quote from: The Mighty Gryphon on November 25, 2016, 07:23:52 PM
Ok, so when you push the starter button what you hear is just the whirring sound of an electric motor spinning with nothing being moved.  Is that correct?

Is this whirring sound coming from behind the ignition coils where the starter motor is located?

That's is correct and yes.


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline Martin

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #141 on: November 26, 2016, 03:39:42 PM »
 :popcorm
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  • North Lakes Queensland Australia
  • 1992 K75s Hybrid, Lefaux, Vespa V twin.

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #142 on: November 27, 2016, 09:56:34 PM »
Quote from: The Mighty Gryphon on November 26, 2016, 09:04:30 AM
Wish I knew what the heck I'm trying to help him fix.
Sorry, I know it's annoying.

I got the battery charged back up and now when I turn the key I don't hear anything from within the fuel tank. Could it be a bad pump? Is there a way to test it?
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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline Laitch

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #143 on: November 27, 2016, 10:36:27 PM »
Quote from: MaraudeRS on November 27, 2016, 09:56:34 PM

. . .  and now when I turn the key I don't hear anything from within the fuel tank . . .
When you turn the key, or when you push and release the starter button? What happened to the clunk? Remove the blasted cap assembly and look at the pump assembly to verify all electrical connections are secure, that the pump is mounted securely in its damper and holding ring, that the holding ring is seated securely in the sump, that the fuel filter isn't rolling around like a loose cannon or nodding like a bobblehead because only one end is connected.


Is the engine now turning over but not starting, or is the starter still whirring with no effect on the engine?
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #144 on: November 27, 2016, 10:55:57 PM »
Quote from: Laitch on November 27, 2016, 10:36:27 PM
When you turn the key, or when you push and release the starter button? What happened to the clunk? Remove the blasted cap assembly and look at the pump assembly to verify all electrical connections are secure, that the pump is mounted securely in its damper and holding ring, that the holding ring is seated securely in the sump, that the fuel filter isn't rolling around like a loose cannon.


Is the engine now turning over but not starting, or is the starter still whirring with no effect on the engine?
When I turn the key, before I hit the starter button, I get no more clunk.

The cap assembly is still off. I double checked that the pump is securely in place and all connections are secure. The filter is properly attached. The engine still doesn't turn over. The starting is whirring with no effect on the engine.


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline Laitch

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #145 on: November 27, 2016, 11:02:00 PM »
Quote from: MaraudeRS on November 27, 2016, 10:55:57 PM
The engine still doesn't turn over. The starting is whirring with no effect on the engine.
Then concentrate on getting the sprag clutch working. Google sprag clutch and search the Technical Library card catalog and the Technical Library here for explanations and methods. Please report back.
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #146 on: November 27, 2016, 11:13:14 PM »
Will do. Thank you and Gryph very much!


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline MaraudeRS

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #147 on: November 28, 2016, 03:46:13 PM »
I got the engine to turn over but it still won't fire up. I took apart the fuel hose at the rail and I'm not getting any gas. I pulled the fuel pump back out and bench tested it with a 12v battery and this is what it does:

Does it need to be replaced?


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  • Monterey, CA
  • 1992 K100RS

Offline Elipten

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #148 on: November 28, 2016, 03:49:37 PM »
Not good. Reverse current, shot in some wd40, soak in vinegar, or replace

Search for solutions. Recently one moto bricker took it apart and repaired.


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  • San Antonio, TX
  • 1990 K75RT

Offline Laitch

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Re: The Rusty Brick - '92 K100RS
« Reply #149 on: November 28, 2016, 04:19:17 PM »
Quote from: MaraudeRS on November 28, 2016, 03:46:13 PM
I got the engine to turn over but it still won't fire up
How did you get it to do that, MarauderRS, or did it just suddenly happen—like divine intervention?


As far as the pump is concerned, it can be disassembled and cleaned but cleanliness may not be its only problem. Parts may be worn beyond tolerance. If it were my bike, I'd replace it. Measure its diameter in millimeters and go shopping. Alternative pumps are listed in the Technical Library. Check the integrity of the vibration damper, too. It shouldn't be easy to deform like dough. If you get a pump with a smaller diameter, you'll need to shim it with a fuel-proof material so it fits snuggly within the damper


Other members might come forward with pumps they've used a substitutes. Try Googling K100 alternative fuel pump.
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  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
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