Help, dies in the motorway, at 80mph, then restart. Today dies again

[foliver]

Hi all
Traveling with my wife at 200 miles from home
Yesterday the bike dies in the highway after 2 short cuts.
Then starts again and runs ok and we arrive to the city to visit it.
Today it started ok, after 25 min of soft city riding dies again
I checked connections, all ok
Fuel lines ok
Dies suddently what can I do? I’m returning home now, I’m at 200 miles…
Thanks for the help

[johnny]

greetings...

last time i heard of this it turned out to be the petrol pump was really pumping diesel instead of petrol...

you are lucky only 200 miles from home... that dude was 2000 miles from home...

j o

[Scott_]

When the bike quits, is it a sudden event, as if the kill switch was activated.... or is more delayed as if it is running out of gas..... When restarting, can it be done right away or only can happen after the bike sets a bit.

For the prior, is it happening when turning the bars? could be wiring at the ignition switch near the headstock, wire can break inside the insulation from repeated turning of the bars.
Also another possibility could be the HES wiring or HES itself.

For the later, check the connector for the fuel pump under the tank... this connection is common for flaky electrical connectivity causing the fuel pump to not run.

[Chaos]

could be your HES (Hall effect sensor) they tend to fail when the bike gets hot then work again after it cools down.  You can test it with a hair dryer, search HES

[foliver]

Hello all.
well, i'm at home now, she brings me.....
After my post, i bought a contact cleaner, and i apply in the fuel pump connector, then ( after the time to buy the contact cleaner and apply it) it restarts.
Wife up ( both perspiring, hot) and lets go, i went to a gas station just out of town to start the drive back home.
I turned off the bike, full the tank, and then, no more start. The starter worked, but no the pump.
Ok, lets put in one side the tank ( full!!!!) and spray all the connectors again, including the CDI
bike starts again
And then i've done the 150 miles back without problems, just 8 ot 10 short cut offs ( half a sec each)
the olny strange thing, is that in one moment waiting for my wife, the bike idling, the fan starts, and suddently, the bike turns off.

So, reading scott and Chaos post, is not strange that the probem was the HES, cause all times the cut off appeared was in hot environment

Thanks a lot for your comments, i want to clear it!!

[BearTrap]

Test your HES. It can be intermit before it completely fails.

[frankenduck]

Fuel tank connector. Contact cleaner won't help. The failure is usually inside the connector. (Ask johnny.)

Take off the right side cover and with the bike idling and shake the connector to see if that causes issues.

HES issue usually won't give your intermittent (half sec) failures like that. It is usually heat that causes HES issues so when it kills the bike then the bike won't restart and run again until you wait several minutes and the HES has cooled down.

Flaky ignition switch can also cause intermittent running.

If you determine that it is the fuel tank connector then you can replace it with another connector. Here's an example:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/fls.connector/fls.connector.htm

[alexg]

is the big plug to the Jetronic ECM fully seated? That is located on top of the battery, accessible from the LHS removing the side panel.

[foliver]

Fuel tank connector. Contact cleaner won't help. The failure is usually inside the connector. (Ask johnny.)

Take off the right side cover and with the bike idling and shake the connector to see if that causes issues.

HES issue usually won't give your intermittent (half sec) failures like that. It is usually heat that causes HES issues so when it kills the bike then the bike won't restart and run again until you wait several minutes and the HES has cooled down.

Flaky ignition switch can also cause intermittent running.

If you determine that it is the fuel tank connector then you can replace it with another connector. Here's an example:
http://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/fls.connector/fls.connector.htm

hi Franken, thanks for your answer.

"Take off the right side cover and with the bike idling and shake the connector to see if that causes issues"
i've done it, without problem, but toorrow i'll do it again. Thanks for the connector tip.
What is strange, is that the problems, in the highway or in the city, happens between 12 and 15 hs ( when the weather is hot), i remember that, because i weas sweating when it died.

The 2 times the bike died idling was in hot and stationary situations....

[foliver]

is the big plug to the Jetronic ECM fully seated? That is located on top of the battery, accessible from the LHS removing the side panel.

Hi Alexg, yes, it's fully seated, i checked that!! thanks!

[frankenduck]

hi Franken, thanks for your answer.

"Take off the right side cover and with the bike idling and shake the connector to see if that causes issues"
i've done it, without problem, but toorrow i'll do it again. Thanks for the connector tip.
What is strange, is that the problems, in the highway or in the city, happens between 12 and 15 hs ( when the weather is hot), i remember that, because i weas sweating when it died.

The 2 times the bike died idling was in hot and stationary situations....

Things expand when they get hot so if if it is heat-related (no guarantee that it is though) then that wouldn't be too strange.

Another thing that if it's going out will fail when it gets hot is the ignition coils. But since each cylinder has it's own coil it would probably just run like crap on two cylinders if a coil were failing.

If it's not the fuel tank connector then I'm still thinking and flaky ignition switch is a likely suspect. I didn't reread the whole thread but have you cleaned the ignition switch yet?

[foliver]

If it's not the fuel tank connector then I'm still thinking and flaky ignition switch is a likely suspect. I didn't reread the whole thread but have you cleaned the ignition switch yet?
[/quote]

hi, yes, it was done, all clean,and tight......

can be the HES cable?, when i paint the frame, i felt the cable of the hes was too tight, and i was feeling affraid, that the pvc of the cable peels off...

[frankenduck]

Yeah, flaky HES wiring could cause sudden death - worth checking.

Also check/reseat the connector to the ICU up by the steering head.

[foliver]

txs Franken, i've cleaned the ICU with electronic cleaner, and checked it seats firm the connector.

do you think, if the cable of the HES is flaky, it can be replaced ? or it's better to have a new unit and restart from cero?

[Laitch]

. . . when i paint the frame, i felt the cable of the hes was too tight, and i was feeling affraid, that the pvc of the cable peels off...

You'll need to check the cable for abrasion before before your feelings run amok and cause you any more sleepless nights.    When you painted the frame, did you dismount the ground cables attached to the frame backbone under the tank before you painted it?

Replacing parts like the HES or fuel injection relay before you have determined conclusively that they are defective can waste both time and money. So test them first using information gathered from the troubleshooting guide here or from various posts on the forum.

[frankenduck]

txs Franken, i've cleaned the ICU with electronic cleaner, and checked it seats firm the connector.

do you think, if the cable of the HES is flaky, it can be replaced ? or it's better to have a new unit and restart from cero?

There's shielding around the HES wiring (similar to coax wiring) and if that's trashed then I'd be inclined to replace the whole HES if you think that's the issue.  Look for a used one on Ebay - they're very  expensive new from BMW - $600 USD.

[foliver]

You'll need to check the cable for abrasion before before your feelings run amok and cause you any more sleepless nights.    When you painted the frame, did you dismount the ground cables attached to the frame backbone under the tank before you painted it?

Replacing parts like the HES or fuel injection relay before you have determined conclusively that they are defective can waste both time and money. So test them first using information gathered from the troubleshooting guide here or from various posts on the forum.

hi Laitch.

Today i'll check for abrassion in the cable, in a conclusive way is the tightest cable in the bike..

No, my bad, i've not dismantled the ground cables, i've dismantles, and polished each of the cables and the frame, and applied deoxit before painting the frame. If you think this can cause a problem, i can do it again..

I will read again how to test it, the hair drier test, just after ignition, when the engine has not reached the woorking temp, is a conclusive test?

[foliver]

There's shielding around the HES wiring (similar to coax wiring) and if that's trashed then I'd be inclined to replace the whole HES if you think that's the issue.  Look for a used one on Ebay - they're very  expensive new from BMW - $600 USD.

today will be the day of full inspection of the cable.
I've seen this part for my bike and model, https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/boignsen-k049edl.htm
Can do the trick, if the cable is flaky?

[beemuker]

I wouldn't buy a used one. there is a guy over on MOA that rewires them for about $100. I may need one for my R1100 and if I do I'm going to go for one of the Euromotoelectrics, $175 for the R!!, $159 for yours.

[Barrieb]

Do check the breather pipe from the crankcase to the airbox (just behind the choke cable)  I thought my Hall Sensor was playing up and it turned out to be once the bike warmed up, the cracks in the pipe opened up and sucked in air.  Bike would not start until it had cooled down.  Cheap fix for me, after good advice here.  The PO forked out £200 for a new Hall sensor set up! Now if i can just stop that pump leaking............

[foliver]

Hi Barrieb, a lucky story.
My breather pipe is new, but I’ll check it anyway.
This days I’m out of home and cannot put my fingers on it.
Thanks for your reply!

[Barrieb]

You said earlier that the fan comes on just before it cuts out? could it be the temperature circuit?  that will cut the engine out after starting the fan?
There are many many more experienced people on the forum, who could advise, might be worth reading on the previous posts

Cheers

Barrie

[The Mighty Gryphon]

You said earlier that the fan comes on just before it cuts out? could it be the temperature circuit?  that will cut the engine out after starting the fan?
There are many many more experienced people on the forum, who could advise, might be worth reading on the previous posts

Cheers

Barrie

There is a safety shut down of the engine if the temperature keeps rising after the fan is turned on.  I think it's written up somewhere in the owner's manual.

If you are having a problem with that function, it will probably be with the temperature sensor or the temperature relay.  Have you checked them?  Also, there could be a problem with the cap on the filler which is supposed to release pressure from the system. 

If indeed the temperature is getting that high, you need to look at the radiator and the thermostat.  I have owned motobricks with enough bugs in the cooling fins of the radiator to feed a family for a month.  Also, if a previous owner used well water in the system it could have massive mineral deposits in the coolant passages in the radiator. 

Last, one of the functions not understood by most owners is that there is a radiator bypass that allows the coolant to circulate while the engine warms up.  This is to allow more uniform warming of the engine.  One of the jobs of the thermostat is to close off this bypass so all the coolant in the circuit goes to the radiator to release it's heat load.  If the thermostat doesn't open enough to close the bypass cooling is severely reduced.

[frankenduck]

Fan comes on at 103C 217F
Warning lamp at 111C 232F
Cap blows at 120C 248F

It supposedly shuts down automatically somewhere above 120C but I've never tested that and don't know that for a fact.

[foliver]

If you are having a problem with that function, it will probably be with the temperature sensor or the temperature relay.  Have you checked them?  Also, there could be a problem with the cap on the filler which is supposed to release pressure from the system. 

HI, the temp sensor is new, and the relay is a used substitute of mine.
6 years ago ( before letting the bike on the shed for 6 years) one very hot summer one day in a red light the bike turned off suddently, i thought my temp sensor or relay were bad, and a safety cut off happened. So i bought a used relay, and tested the fan.
All seemed to works ok.

Back to now, after the 6 years passed i overhauled lots of things, now i changed the temp sensor for a new one, dismantle the fan grease the bearings, and the test was ok.
The thermostat is new, tested and works ok.
BUT i don't know how is the radiator inside, may be i can take it off and send it to clean the interior to a professional.

How can i know if the cap is ok? i've replaced the orings with a euromotoelectrics kit.

But the cap doesn't seems to be the problem, cause if i open it the bike doesn't starts anyway ( after a shut off), it only turns on after 15 minutes or so.

Yesterday it turned off again after some minutes of agile riding. After 15 minutes, all normal, and i went home at low revs....