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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Soggz on September 26, 2019, 06:06:19 AM
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Ok guys.
At the start of this year, as some may know, I had some new a spline set welded onto my prop, as the splines were funked!
Today, I disassembled the rear end just to see how much wear was evident at 1050 miles, from when I got the bike on the road from 1st June.
The splines were greased with moly grease, and even moly powder dust was added.
The final drive splines weren’t great, but usable. Here’s the results.
I have ridden the bike fairly hard, so it’s probably a bit my fault and a bit of mixing new spline with old. On reassembly, I am trying the Chris Harris silicone plug method to help relieve lubrications creep.
I also mixed a stronger recipe of grease and moly powder, this time.
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a bit of mixing new spline with old.
Yep, that pretty much covers it.
The new female half does you no more good than the old one without a matching new set of male splines. Your "contact area" is only as good as the available surface area of the male splines(and matching female half), which in your case is not very good.(though others have been worse)
Now if you were to put a new male spline into what remains of the shaft, you will soon wear out the male one to match the male you removed(as you have damage the contact area of the female half).......
Your only real true resolution is to replace both, at the same time.
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Yep, that pretty much covers it.
The new female half does you no more good than the old one without a matching new set of male splines. Your "contact area" is only as good as the available surface area of the male splines(and matching female half), which in your case is not very good.(though others have been worse)
Now if you were to put a new male spline into what remains of the shaft, you will soon wear out the male one to match the male you removed(as you have damage the contact area of the female half).......
Your only real true resolution is to replace both, at the same time.
Yes. A lesson, learnt.But I am surprised on the wear in such a short time.
So how many miles do you think is left between the two?
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Just as a comparison. New ones after 1050 miles, and the old one as when I first got the bike.
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greetings...
i am proficient in american english... as learnt at the university of cambridge... and practiced acrosst all corners of this flat earth...
just ride... getts a lorry in que and not worry about it...
j o
lol. I’m not worried, Johnny. I have a AA breakdown card. It was just a bit of an experiment to highlight the wear factor of new mixed with old splines. Hope this is helpful to people. It would be nice to get a better rear drive, as I can get the drive shaft splines welded on for free.
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greetings...
just ride... getts a lorry in que and not worry about it...
Not quite sure what you mean, Johnny. You ever do English at school?
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think of the problem as a phillips head screw.
you try to get it out with a phillips head screw driver that is too small. it strips out the head of the screw a bit. so you get a new screw, but use the same too small driver. guess what will happen again? yep, ya strip out another screw.
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think of the problem as a phillips head screw.
you try to get it out with a phillips head screw driver that is too small. it strips out the head of the screw a bit. so you get a new screw, but use the same too small driver. guess what will happen again? yep, ya strip out another screw.
Yes. Good example. Finding a newer rear final drive is a bit of a problem. Anyone know of one?
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Yes. A lesson, learnt.But I am surprised on the wear in such a short time.
So how many miles do you think is left between the two?
Should ask Past-my-Prime ? http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,12817.0.html
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/6539-260819184452-2416577.jpeg)
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AS an experiment try using a grease like Staburags NBU 30 PTM.
See if next 1000 miles yields different result?
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Should ask Past-my-Prime ? http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,12817.0.html
(http://www.motobrick.com/gallery/2/6539-260819184452-2416577.jpeg)
I think yours is the model with more splines than mine.
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Yours, his, minez, I see Z=20 splines all around
PM sent
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Yours, his, minez, I see Z=20 splines all around
PM sent
yes, sorry. I was distracted.
Apologies.
I see what you mean. I’m guessing I have a few more miles left then before stranding will happen?
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10k +
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10k +
Ok, yes, if driven carefully, I’m guessing.
The link for the final drive. Is it a drum brake model? As I couldn’t see the acutuating arm orifice.
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10k +
It seems at least half of the width of the teeth has been eroded in 1000 miles. Getting more than another thousand miles out of that shaft would be good luck.
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It seems at least half of the width of the teeth has been eroded in 1000 miles. Getting more than another thousand miles out of that shaft would be good luck.
Not looking good then...
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Ok. Conflicting answers, then. So, is it any good or not?
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greetings...
look... i deal in reality... not grandiose delusions...
when i said to getts a lorry in que and not worry about it... i meant it...
if you gonna ride it like that you oughtta be prepared to make the walk of shame or call a flattbedd wrecker... its that simple...
j o
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Ultimately then, I need another final drive and another set of splines!
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Or sell it to some other guy...
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when i said to getts a lorry in que and not worry bout it... what does that mean ffs?
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when i said to getts a lorry in que and not worry bout it... what does that mean ffs?
It means have a flatbed truck lined up to haul your moto off the roadway when the driveline fails, but in the meantime enjoy the ride until the inevitable failure occurs.
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It means have a flatbed truck lined up to haul your moto off the roadway when the driveline fails, but in the meantime enjoy the ride until the inevitable failure occurs.
Ah,ok.
I have trouble understanding Johnny, as I’m not sure if he is of this world.
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Ah,ok.
I have trouble understanding Johnny, as I’m not sure if he is of this world.
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it is a self fullfilling prophecy.
the more wear on the splines, the more slop in the joint
the more slop in the joint the faster the wear on the splines.
every time you shift or roll on/off throttle causes loose splines to crash against each other. it is not a linear failure curve, the more wear, the faster it goes south.
bricks with new shaft and fd splines are SOOOOO smooth. it is incredible how much of a difference this makes in the ride.
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Ah,ok.
I have trouble understanding Johnny, as I’m not sure if he is of this world.
but he was speaking in the language of "old england"......
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but he was speaking in the language of "old england"......
talking bollox more like.
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talking gobbledegook more like.
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It seems at least half of the width of the teeth has been eroded in 1000 miles. Getting more than another thousand miles out of that shaft would be good luck.
Talking tosh :dk bmp
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Talking tosh :dk bmp
Walking the wosh. :thisplacewhack
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Just curious, is the replaced spline some sort of after market thing, do you know what grade of cheese it is.
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. . . do you know what grade of cheese it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8pbUW5n1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8pbUW5n1g)
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Watching Monty python is one of the few occasions where I can be confident my memory is great.
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Just curious, is the replaced spline some sort of after market thing, do you know what grade of cheese it is.
cheddar
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8pbUW5n1g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB8pbUW5n1g)
no BMW cheese, either!
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Joy! Found a newer FD with great splines of only 35,000 miles on them, also, a free set of splines are being sent to me. I may harden and temper them before welding, perhaps?
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I would think thar you need to harden them after welding. Did you get any heat treating instructions with the spines?
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I would think thar you need to harden them after welding. Did you get any heat treating instructions with the spines?
No instructions, as Motobins just get a batch of them, then sell them on.
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. . . Motobins just get a batch of them, then sell them on.
Apparently they also mate them to driveshafts, or contract with somebody else to do that.
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Apparently they also mate them to driveshafts, or contract with somebody else to do that.
yeah, I know.
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yeah, I know.
I posted that information for the benefit of others who might not have gotten that impression from what you wrote. Anyway, it seems as though they would have information about the process.
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See if Motobins can tell you the steel grade. With that information any competent welder can harden the splines.
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See if Motobins can tell you the steel grade. With that information any competent welder can harden the splines.
They don’t know.
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You need to check the hardness. Type in "How to check the hardness of steel". Do a few checks on the outside one near the weld one near the end and one on the teeth. Or go to your local friendly engineering shop with a bottle of suitable beverage and ask them to check it.
Regards Martin.
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You need to check the hardness. Type in "How to check the hardness of steel". Do a few checks on the outside one near the weld one near the end and one on the teeth. Or go to your local friendly engineering shop with a bottle of suitable beverage and ask them to check it.
Regards Martin.
Good idea.
Thanks Martin.
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You need to check the hardness. Type in "How to check the hardness of steel". Do a few checks on the outside one near the weld one near the end and one on the teeth. Or go to your local friendly engineering shop with a bottle of suitable beverage and ask them to check it.
Regards Martin.
Looked on the YouTube about checking hardness. The ‘ball bearing’ drop looks like a way for me to check, in my own garage.
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How do these look to you all?
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Anyone?
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Maybe make some better photos.
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They look brilliant! Get some Staburags and good riding. Use your home brew moly mix on the tractor. It's just lubing the sidewalls of the final drive cavity.
Staburags 10g (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-g-Staburags-fur-BMW-R-80-R-100-K-75-K-100-u-Moto-Guzzi/150778891085?hash=item231b1f4b4d:g:J88AAOSwDk5TxncG)
Staburags 20g (https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-g-Staburags-fur-BMW-R-80-R-100-K-75-K-100-u-Moto-Guzzi/151356873376?hash=item233d929aa0:g:vswAAOSwug5dSni3)
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Maybe make some better photos.
yeah. Don’t get much better, unfortunatly.
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it is a self fullfilling prophecy.
the more wear on the splines, the more slop in the joint
the more slop in the joint the faster the wear on the splines.
every time you shift or roll on/off throttle causes loose splines to crash against each other. it is not a linear failure curve, the more wear, the faster it goes south.
bricks with new shaft and fd splines are SOOOOO smooth. it is incredible how much of a difference this makes in the ride.
Yes.
Once I’ve mashed the old ones up good and proper in a thousand or so miles,I will have learnt my lesson.
This came today, from California. Shame they didn’t pack any sunshine in the box!
Interestingly, though, Im surprised the splines in the FD arnt longer, now that you can see it from the other end, with no drive shaft! Quite a gap for your grease to go missing up into!
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They look brilliant! Get some Staburags and good riding. Use your home brew moly mix on the tractor. It's just lubing the sidewalls of the final drive cavity.
Staburags 10g (https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-g-Staburags-fur-BMW-R-80-R-100-K-75-K-100-u-Moto-Guzzi/150778891085?hash=item231b1f4b4d:g:J88AAOSwDk5TxncG)
Staburags 20g (https://www.ebay.com/itm/20-g-Staburags-fur-BMW-R-80-R-100-K-75-K-100-u-Moto-Guzzi/151356873376?hash=item233d929aa0:g:vswAAOSwug5dSni3)
£13.00!, Really? Is there platinum in it?
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£13.00!, Really? Is there platinum in it?
That's like ten years' supply.
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Is there platinum in it?
Organic spirulina perhaps. :-) A thorough application firmly applied with a loaded toothbrush on clean, smooth, dry splines should be enough. Excess will be flung off and wasted—as volador indicated previously. It's effective, durable lubricant so can be used elsewhere.
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Organic spirulina perhaps. :-) A thorough application firmly applied with a loaded toothbrush on clean, smooth, dry splines should be enough. Excess will be flung off and wasted—as volador indicated previously. It's effective, durable lubricant so can be used elsewhere.
Bloody expensive, though.
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I am trying the Chris Harris silicone plug method to help relieve lubrications creep.
Hey Soggz, if you still have your K bike, wondering how that silicone plug worked out?