Still chasing gremlins and demons for intermitent power loss on the run. Fixed??

[bizzaro]

Sometimes less is more.............specially for time consuming projects that are well, time consuming and tedious.
94 K1100LT
So instead of going though all the trouble of yankin and cleaning out my key switch ignition to hunt down demons,   I want to by bypass the switch.  I have five wires. Two go to relief relay. The rest are just lights and what not. If I connect the two wires to the relief relay, will that effectively bypass the ignition switch so I can run the bike.........???

Jokes appreciated.............serious replies requested.  Here are where the wires go and colors for you electrical engineers:

From the Clymer Manual:

RED-  splits to relief relay and to fuse box. From fuse box on to clock and indicator transmitter.

VIOLET- I think connects to all ignition wires? (Solid block across all five wires?)

GREEN-Relief relay.

GREY/BLUE- To gauges and a combined switch etc. nothing for ignition.

GREY- fuse box to bulb monitoring device

In the schematic the pencil terminates at the block I refer to.

[rbm]

Nomenclature translation for the K-bike:
relief relay = load shed relay


Red is directly connected to the battery.  At a minimum, connect red to green.  This will provide power to the ignition circuit at all times.  Resultantly, you'll have no switched 12V on the bike and will quickly drain your battery by the parasitic load of all the circuits.


Connecting Grey to Grey/Blue will provide power to the parking light circuits.


There is no Violet wire on a standard K75/K100 ignition switch.  Could this have been added by a PO??  I'm actually very unclear in what you mean by "to be a solid block across all five wires".  Does it short circuit all the wires together???  Pictures please if they help me understand better.

[bizzaro]

Thanks Robert. Its a 94 K1100LT
Yes , I know load shed relay......I just copied what it was labeled in the Clymer manual..................So how do I connect it so the alternator is included in the mix so I can drive my bike?   I mean it is basically hot wiring the ignition is what I want to do to eliminate the switch. I am convinced my problems are not at my keyed switch.  But I just want to be certain without spending half a day or more cleaning it up.  ( I work very slowly) Eliminating components as I plod along.   While the riding season wanes away.  :musicboohoo: I tried to read faults from the diagnostic pin.  All I get is a volt reading when I turn on the key.

I am pretty sure my running issues lie in the motronic or one of the components that feed it. 

[Scott_]

Here's a better diagram of your key switch.

[bizzaro]

Thanks Scott. Just what I was looking for.  So I can just connect them all and run my bike to see if it still has it's issues bypassing the key ignition.   

[rbm]

Sorry Bizzaro. Should have read more closely before posting my answer.  That's the way it goes when doing so from a mobile phone instead of a computer.


Anyway Scott got you sorted.  There is a Violet on the K1100, which is absent from the earlier K's.


If you're having intermittent running problems, I'm in the midst of helping another guy with such symptoms for which the same symptoms are related to the fuel pump connection, not the ignition switch.  Seems he's having connection problems right at the through connector located at the fuel level sender.  When he wiggles the pin connecting to the +ve side of the pump, continuity between the connector and the ring terminal on the pump goes in and out.  His symptoms are that the bike will run fine and then suddenly it will refuse to start (turns over but no firing of the cylinders and no pump sound).  A new sender will repair this problem.

[wmax351]

If you're having intermittent running problems, I'm in the midst of helping another guy with such symptoms for which the same symptoms are related to the fuel pump connection, not the ignition switch.  Seems he's having connection problems right at the through connector located at the fuel level sender.  When he wiggles the pin connecting to the +ve side of the pump, continuity between the connector and the ring terminal on the pump goes in and out.  His symptoms are that the bike will run fine and then suddenly it will refuse to start (turns over but no firing of the cylinders and no pump sound).  A new sender will repair this problem.

I think I might have had that in the past. If I recall, I just hit the connector with some pb blaster and then dielectric grease, and that was that.

[rbm]

Well, Max, I helped him replace the tank connector thinking it was a bad connection between the harness and tank lead, but apparently that didn't solve the problem.  Just throwing that possibility out there.

[Laitch]

I now realize the difficulty that might be encountered when removing the ignition switch in a K1100, biz, so I appreciate your reluctance to tackle it. Let's take a look at a quote from you in your Engine Dies On The Run thread. Maybe there's hope in that direction.

So there is a four pin connection(hard wired?) under the tank as well Laitch. The one I worked on is connected by wires and is usually stuffed under the tank. I am really suspicious of the fuel pump connections.  With the key on and the bike not running the other day I could wiggle the wires and hear the pump kick in and out.  . . .

Now doesn't that seem slightly similar to what rbm is describing when he writes this?

. .  . Seems he's having connection problems right at the through connector located at the fuel level sender.  When he wiggles the pin connecting to the +ve side of the pump, continuity between the connector and the ring terminal on the pump goes in and out.  His symptoms are that the bike will run fine and then suddenly it will refuse to start (turns over but no firing of the cylinders and no pump sound).  A new sender will repair this problem.

[bizzaro]

Thanks to ya'll. 

So I hot wired my ignition, and confirmed it is not the key switch.  Still bucks like shit whenever it wants to.  I can usually keep it running if I nurse the throttle and it will come around. It is getting more frequent and worse.

 I have already been through the infamous four pin for the pump and sender, it is fine. Checked to make sure tank is venting.  Adjusted the  TPS to .40.( I know it is supposed to be .375)    Tried to wiggle the sending unit etc. Popped out the pump. Tank was cleaner than a whistle. New filter last summer.  I do not have a pressure gauge to check the fuel pressure regulator. Guess that will be my next purchase in the AM. Getting good spark when testing. Hard to test on the run. 

I am suspicious of the side stand switch. P O had the side stand half assed bypassed.  And I am suspicious of the other safety switches on the bike..Clutch, and neutral indicator.  Already cleaned up the kill switch last year when I changed out the throttle cable.....

The search goes on.  I may be onto something with the side stand switch...........I hope.  It was wonky when I parked the bike tonight after my ignition hot wire test.

Addendum:  Laitch Thanks for weighting in.
 "So there is a four pin connection(hard wired?) under the tank as well Laitch. The one I worked on is connected by wires and is usually stuffed under the tank. I am really suspicious of the fuel pump connections.  With the key on and the bike not running the other day I could wiggle the wires and hear the pump kick in and out.  . . ."
 I found this to be the side stand switch which P O had stripped off the insulation I assume to bypass it.  So with the ignition on, and the bike not running, the pump would kick on and off when I poked around in there.  The four pin is in the same area. I was sure it was the four pin to the sending unit before I found the stripped wires..............................................It may be, and I am hoping it is so that the side stand switch is not working properly. nice and simple.  That will shut your engine and pump down and leave all the lights on, and no warning lights come up for the charging system. 

[bizzaro]

OK. So I tried to back flow the fuel pressure regulator which of coarse didn't work..........................but it did empty the fuel line backwards(drained in reverse) up to the regulator. Then I pissed a bit of gas via the fuel pump through the fuel rail to douche it out.  I looked but didn't see any obvious dirt, junk come out.  But So far I have not had an issue  with buck'n an snort'n!! Over 100 miles. And it was getting bad, like every ten miles or so of stop and wait. :nono :yow :clap: :neener:


 
I also poked around trying to follow the temp sensor wire, so I moved a bunch of wires around.  One of the fault codes I was getting was temp sensor..................gone now.  But one code I cannot get rid of..1111.....  1111= CO potentiometer ?  I have a motronic and a catalytic converter exhaust. Do I have a CO potentiometer?? And if so, where, and how do I adjust it??

[The Dude]

Bizz,looking good.let us know if you're symptoms return.I have similar symptoms that came suddenly and now consistently,cough,splutter and vroom,just off idle.Too bad to ride.
I'm interested in the fuel pissing therapy,suspect mine needs some.

[Inge K.]

But one code I cannot get rid of..1111.....  1111= CO potentiometer ?  I have a motronic and a catalytic converter exhaust. Do I have a CO potentiometer??

If you have a cat, you don't have a co pot........do you have the correct Motronic unit?

Non cat:  Bosch 0 261 203 331.
With cat: Bosch 0 261 203 332.

[bizzaro]

Yep, it is the 332, just looked. Thanks Inge.  I am not sure why it reads that code then, and as I thought, I don't have a CO pot?  Another code I have gotten in recent past is 2344 which is oxygen sensor shorted to ground. Not sure if that relates? 

The Dude.......I would check your TPS and do the air leak test with propane. 

[Laitch]

For the life of me I could not find anything remotely like the C O  adjustment screw in the photos in my Clymer, or the illustration in  my BMW repair manual.  Man I looked real long and hard.  Notta?  I am guessing it has been superseded by technology in my 94 K11 and is adjusted by the computers in the motronic etc? Is there an adjustment screw, and if so, where is it?

The CO adjustement screw is on the non cat models only....if you have a cat you don't find that pot meter
on your bike.......think I did read somewhere that only cat models was sold in the US.

One of the fault codes I was getting was temp sensor..................gone now.  But one code I cannot get rid of..1111.....  1111= CO potentiometer ?  I have a motronic and a catalytic converter exhaust. Do I have a CO potentiometer?? And if so, where, and how do I adjust it??

If you have a cat, you don't have a co pot........do you have the correct Motronic unit?
Non cat:  Bosch 0 261 203 331.
With cat: Bosch 0 261 203 332.

Déjà vu. This might be turning into an annual ritual.  :giggles

As a time trial, I read over your last 275 posts, biz. The persistent fan problem you've had coupled with what seems to be this inappropriate CO pot fault reading might mean you should substitute a different Motronic.

[bizzaro]

A fool that cannot remember the past is destined to repeat it! :dunno A spare "Motronic"?  Now lets see, where did I put that thing?

I really never had an issue with the fan, it was my getting familiar with the very late engagement of the fan coming on, on the K bike.  For some reason the fan not coming on till the gauge was in the red made me nervous. 

[Laitch]

A spare "Motronic"? 

Different was the word. Getting one could possibly mean reaching out beyond the greater Hogback Rd area with a request. :giggles

[bizzaro]

Different was the word. Getting one could possibly mean reaching out beyond the greater Hogback Rd area with a request. :giggles

You mean like out along the Ridley and beyond!? :mbird

[Laitch]

I'll tell you about one thing that might be contributing to your bike engine's power loss, biz.

You have severely restricted air intake by using that flexible fine mesh-cloth screen over your air box snorkel's intake port. Air is unlikely to flow easily through that mesh screened opening at speed and the faster the speed, the less likely air will flow through it because of increasing turbulence on the outer surface of the screen. Remove that fine-mesh cloth and let the engine breath. The air filter itself will control both coarse and fine particles. The intake port uses a screen to keep assorted shrapnel, hummingbird and bumblebee carcasses, wind-thrown hops flowers and confetti from clogging the snorkel itself. 0.25" mesh made from thin metal should be plenty. No-mesh would work; you'd occasionally just need to clear the snorkel and clean the nests from the air box created by the survivors. :giggles