Heavy rain, no start K75C

[ibexonabike]

Hey folks. So, we've had 3 days of heavy rain, the Ibex has been outside sitting under its cover. Today finally showed signs of sun, so I get everything packed up for the day and go to start it, everything lights up when I turn the key, but nothing on ignition switch press. I try three more times (I don't want to weld the starter, so 3's the limit) and the last time I hit the starter switch it kills the dash lights. They come back on with a key re-turn. So, it sounds like I have a short that drained the battery, correct? Any particular places to examine tonight when I'm home? What are the normal battery voltages for Off/On/Starting/Started for a K75C? The battery is new this summer, so it should recharge just fine, yes? Anyone else have this issue?

[johnny]

mes thinks the starter needs to turn backwards to break it lose from a dead spot...

ignition off... get on the seat... put it in 1st gear n hold the clutch in... roll it backwards and let the clutch out... this will move the starter... do this 3 times...

ignition on... hit the button... should be yeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

let me know...

j o

[ibexonabike]

Seriously, the alternator, not rain related? I'll definitively try that tonight, and store it in the 'you own an old bike, it has kwerks' bag of tricks. Will post results tonight.

[frankenduck]

It's not the alternator.

It's sounds like you're not getting power to the start button.

The starter button gets power from one of two sources:

1) Gear indicator circuitry in the instrument cluster when the bike is in neutral.

2) The switch on the clutch lever when the clutch is pulled in.

If that switch is flaky and you're not in neutral then the bike won't start.  Is the green N light illuminating when in neutral?

Voltage will vary by battery.  It should have at least 12V when off though.

[ibexonabike]

The bike is in Neutral, green light on. I actually tried starting in 1st, saw nothing was happening, did my mental run-through of FINE-C (haha, MSF course from 9 years ago, weee!), put it in Neutral, push starter, no go. I'll check the connections on the clutch switch at the handle. Any way to get around the gear indicator circuitry if that's the culprit? Maybe I'll be taking apart my cluster sooner than I thought...

[frankenduck]

Hmm... if it's in neutral then it should be putting out 12V to the start button.

Clutch switch:  Those do get flaky.   Sometimes dirt builds up in them or sometimes the spring in them breaks from wear.  Pull the clutch lever in and look to see if the piston of the switch pops out.

It might also be caused by a flaky ignition switch so try jiggling your key around to see what difference that makes.

Check/replace your number 1 fuse too.

The next thing I'd check is that you're getting power to and from the starter button:

1) Remove the gas tank

2) Find the connector for the right combo switch

3) There are two black/green wires that enter the connector at the same terminal and provide power to the starter button. (One from the clutch switch, one from the gear indicator.)  With either the bike in N or the clutch pulled in you should have 12V at that terminal. (Bike turned on of course.)

4) When you press the starter button you should have 12V on the black/yellow wire at that connector - that wire triggers the starter relay.

[ibexonabike]

So, got home, and the bike fires up. The sun and humidity solved the problem short term, but now I can't diagnose where the fault occurred. Thank you Joe and Duck for the input, now that I know it can happen I can try and avoid it/fix it.

In other news, tomorrow, trip to Lake Winnipesaukee!

[captrusty]

Thats a great ride up that way your going to have a blast !!!!!!! enjoy

[wmax351]

Could be the starter brushes. Try pulling the starter, open the back part, and clean it our. Same thing happened to my bike. The load reduction relay is grounded through the starter.  ??? ??? ???

mes thinks alternator needs to turn backwards to break it lose from a dead spot...

ignition off... get on the seat... put it in 1st gear n hold the clutch in... roll it backwards and let the clutch out... this will move the alternator... do this 3 times...

ignition on... hit the button... should be yeeeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa...

let me know...

j o

I think you mean starter motor.

[johnny]

thats right there wmax351... i did in fact mean the starter... i fixed the post... thanks...

j o

[ibexonabike]

So, I had my second round off dealing with this issue last night. Go to leave work, turn key, hit starter, everything blinks off. Did some diagnosing and turns out the battery was drained. So, got it charging, didn't wait long enough between charging and try to start, and sure enough I welded my starter relay closed. So, I had a quick discussion with a local BMW mechanic, and he gave me a good run-down of how to un-weld a starter relay.

Un-hook the battery positive and get it fully charged.
Make sure you're in Neutral.
Reconnect the battery to the bike (and listen to your starter keep going, and going, and going)
Turn the key, and push the ignition to get the fuel system running.
The bike should start up, and the starter relay should un-weld. The previously mentioned 'light tapping' may be required is some cases to get it to un-stick.

My apologies if I'm re-posting 'common knowledge', but in my (admittedly hurried) forum searching yesterday afternoon I couldn't find the answer I was looking for. Hopefully this is helpful to someone down the road.

As an aside, Duncan, at Duncan's Beemers in Maynard, MA, is a good egg.

[kennybobby]

The recommended practice is to take the keys out of the ignition and always disconnect the NEGATIVE terminal at the battery first--if you mess with the positive terminal without doing this you will be in for a big surprise when the wrench touches and arc welds itself to the frame.  Also there is no need to remove the positive terminal to charge the battery if the negative terminal has been removed.

If you have the key "on" (and the Ljetronic and spark units are energized) then removing a battery terminal while the system is "hot" could induce damage in some of those $pecial circuit$.