Bits and pieces

[Vespa no more]

Went for a ride and several things bubbled to the surface:


Battery wouldn't start the bike (had been used on K1100 - see below)... jump started it off car.
Wife then had to post something and, keeping the bike running, the temp light came on (I need to confirm fan operation again). Cleared once properly underway.
Then indicators stopped flashing... had to manually press each button several times. Then the left side stayed on and nothing would clear it. Pulled over and disconnected one of the two leads. Thankfully, only the top fairing is on the bike - for moments like these (bike had been off the road for 8-9 years). Hand signals from then on.
A bit too warm on the legs (air temp was about 28C / approx 80F) so I then had the knees right out to catch the wind.
On return home, turned bike off and the starter motor was engaged and cranking. So pulled the positive lead off the battery and pushed it into the garage.
Had had enough of it and a cold beer was calling.
Since then, have dismantled, cleaned and greased the RHS controls. Will see if there is any improvement.
Expect it is a relay switch sticking on. Have been looking on Youtube and found some good information


The K1100 is close - not igniting on start-up. Fuel pump not whining etc. This was working on the bench, wires put on correctly. Replacement fuel sensor used and have to rig up a 12 supply to the plug to confirm power is getting through. Have also been phaffing around with fuel pump relay and testing this. No joy yet. It will go. Was very pleased with the power in the starter motor (compared to my K100), all oils removed so far have been good (except fork oil).


Will sell this bike off as soon as everything is ticked off / serviced


Then another can take its place.


Happy new year everyone. Good riding.


Regards


Guy

[Vespa no more]

Further to the K100's carry on the other day...


Pulled the starter motor relay and opened it up (three butter knives down the sides will get over off)


The following pics will show what is going on inside. (appologies if this is elsewhere... first time for me). Pics taken on mobile phone




Build up and pitting seen on starter motor relay switch contacts.
Note LHS contact is darkened on the top.
Whilst cleaning can be done with wet and dry paper, it tends to round the surface of the contacts - less desirable than both sides in full contact. Better to use a points file or wet and dry paper wrapped around a butter knife. I actually used my multi tool ffile (leatherman - difficult to get onto RHS contacts).
Cleaning will take a few attempts to get all build up off
Final result seems acceptable


Hope this helps some of the electrical novices (me included).


A weak battery will create these problems. The build up / unclean surface only compounds starting issues (weaker charge of electricity to starter motor - which will in turn have its own issues ... I have burned a car starter motor out this way... make sure the battery and power supply (don't forget the negative lead from battery to transmission case) are good).


Early K100s have a 30 amp alternator. My K1100 1993 has a 50 amp alternator. Does anyone know if there are any problems if I swap it over?


(PS: if you are wondering about the detail achieved with a samsung S4 mobile phone camera - I have attached a cheap arse macro lense (about $7 for fish eye, wide angle and macro lenses... phone on mini tripod). These contacts are about 3mm across. A handy device if your eyesight is less than it was back in the day)


Regards


Guy

[Laitch]

The following pics will show what is going on inside. (appologies if this is elsewhere... first time for me). Pics taken on mobile phone
Early K100s have a 30 amp alternator. My K1100 1993 has a 50 amp alternator. Does anyone know if there are any problems if I swap it over?

Thanks for posting the useful pic illustrating this common problem. The photo lens information will be helpful, too.
As far as your question about anybody knowing . . .: :hehehe . Anyway, here's one answer among a plethora.

[Vespa no more]

Camera lense details on fleabay. Search for:

3 In 1 Fish Eye +Wide Angle +Macro Camera Lens Kit For iPhone 5 6S Samsung S6 S7

$6 Australian ... that's about $3.25 American.
At that price you could buy two!

Thanks for the link Laitch... lots of goodies there. Am thinking of the upgrade because, despite assurances from the battery shop (21amp hour Motobatt) and on this forum I have doubts about its stamina. Perhaps the relay had issues before I got the bike and this does the battery no favours. I have been through the alternator and starter motor and cleaned the electrics, brushes were acceptable...

The site you provided had the "only in America" zombie apocalypse package. Here in sunny Australia we get "Doomsday Preppers" tv show. I think that prepping becomes an interest, hobby then obsession... almost religious in its fervour... John the Baptist - esque in both the conviction and dismissiveness. And the long suffering families! Don't know whether to laugh or cry.

My question is: do others on this forum from other countries also have people prepping? Is this happening in say Canada, Royston Vasey England (meeting next week after the darts comp has finished in the Cock and Bull pub), Invercargill New Zealand (Dude's running the local chapter... key parties once a month... mind you moving to NZ is prepping enough), Italy, Malta, Myanmar, North Korea, Eritrea???

Shares in the prepping companies went through the roof once Trump got elected.

Regards

Guy

[Laitch]

Here in sunny Australia we get "Doomsday Preppers" tv show. I think that prepping becomes an interest, hobby then obsession... almost religious in its fervour.

I think once you spend seemingly endless time trying to get a neglected K-bike running reliably, surviving Doomsday seems more attractive and possible than continuing work on the bike.

[Martin]

Guy I've been running Deka batteries first one went for 8 years second one went for 5 years. Unfortunately they didn't have one in stock last time so running a different one at the moment for 3 years. I will go back to the Deka which is the absorbed glass mat one. The one I used won't allow the standard clamp to be used, if you want the number I will try and get it.
Regards Martin.

[Vespa no more]

Yes please Martin. Am definitely interested.
Our friends stateside seem to gravitate towards the Odyssey battery.
What is our best option (in Australia) for a heavy duty reliable battery with more than enough cranking amps at a good price (I know the usual request).
Some ads for the Deka batteries are showing 70% off (doesn't usually count for a lot) and the Odyssey is available at a price.
Any suggestions and opinions from those that know (I'm assuming that's you Martin) will be greatly appreciated.


As stated above, if the starter relay had switch contacts like that, I can't blame the battery for struggling.

Regards
Guy

[Martin]

The points weld themselves shut on low battery voltage. I have actually had the side of the battery blow out from this occurrence. In 19 years the relay has jammed closed 3 times I now have a battery isolator switch installed.  http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,8995.msg70926.html#msg70926
I rang Turbo Batteries my local Deka dealer and they wanted the number off my current battery a Rev Plus, unfortunately I can't seem to find a number on it.
I will take a ride across on Friday and give them the measurements H 227 W 125 L 215, I will let you know when I suss it out.
Regards Martin

[Martin]

Can't find a Deka that matches the Rev Plus battery or a listing, they might not do them anymore try contacting them.
Contact Deka Batteries Proudly distributed in Australia by:Federal Batteries (Ryde Batteries Wholesale Pty Ltd) Unit G/10-16 South St,
Rydalmere, NSW 2116
Australia
Enquiries: 1300 133 980
Phone: 02 9638 5222
Fax: 02 9638 3427
Email: contact@federalbatteries.com.au

[Vespa no more]

Thanks very much for your time and effort Martin


Will give them a call tomorrow.


I will be off line from friday - holidays down the south coast for 2 weeks. Probably no electronics (or at least my son's X-Box will stay at home).


Who knows ... might find another K bike. I do have a muffler to collect ... $35 I think (all heatshield nuts intact)but pretty dirty - will give it the treatment for a week or two.


Regards


Guy

[Filmcamera]

I just got a Deka ETX20L for my bike and it fits great and seems to start the bike with no issues, the price wasn't bad either


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026H3CB4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Amp hour capacity is not as important as the cranking amps the battery can deliver to the starter.   They are what spins the motor to start it.  The more you have available the faster the starter will turn when the start relay contacts are burned and your ground terminals are corroded and filthy.

Amp hour capacity just determines how long you can leave the lights on before you kill the battery or how long you can stand there cranking an engine that won't start.  Just to give you an idea of how many amp hours are used to start your engine you can do this calculation.

Divide the time you are cranking the engine in seconds by 3600 and multiply by 225 which is the rated cranking amps of most brick batteries.  The result is the amp hours taken from the battery to start your engine.   For the typical engine start the starter runs for less than a second.  It will draw about 6/100 of an amp hour or about 1/3500 of a 22 amp hour battery's capacity.

The only thing higher amp hour capacity buys is a bit longer life expectancy if the battery is maintained at full charge.  However it buys you nothing if you neglect it and allow it to sit for extended periods with less than a full charge.

[Martin]

I found the number for the Rev Plus battery SVT 2,looked it up doesn't seem to be listed anymore GRRRRR. Had a look at Deka found a listing for all K bikes ETX 30 L, but I would ring them as I've seen a couple of different sizes fitted to bricks.
Regards Martin.