Author Topic: Progressive Fork Springs  (Read 6368 times)

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Progressive Fork Springs
« on: February 24, 2016, 01:27:55 PM »
During my last ride of 2015 (literally) I noticed that my left fork seal was leaking.  This bike was new to me in 2014, so I decided to open up the forks and see what was inside.  I was on the fence about upgrading to progressive springs, but... after a last-minute internet search, I found a pair of Progressive Suspension springs for my '92 K75 for $47 + ship from Dennis Kirk.  Decision made.

Last night I discovered that the bike already had progressive springs!  My first thought was that I'd either return the new springs for refund or re-sell them to the motobrick community.  After laying both springs side-by-side, I noticed the following:

     - new spring length (18.0") + new PVC spacer (4.25") = 22.25" overall (top in photo below)
     - new spring coil = 1.28" o.d.
     - new spring wire = 0.28" o.d.
     - new spring weight = 23.2 oz. each

     - orig spring length (14.75") + orig metal spacer (7.5") = 22.25" overall (bottom in photo below)
     - orig spring coil = 1.26" o.d.
     - orig spring wire = 0.26" o.d.
     - orig spring weight - 13.3 oz. each


I guess I'll keep the new Progressive Suspension springs after all (more metal is better than less, right?).  Any clues to brand of "original" prorgessive fork springs?


p.s.  At Johnny's suggestion, I found the "flavor flav injector" syringe and plastic measuring cup at local WalMart (for $2.45 and $0.85, respectively).


  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline TimTyler

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Re: Progressive Fork Springs
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 09:20:44 PM »
Maybe the previous owner wanted a firm ride? Stick with the new springs.

There needs to be a metal shim / washer (part # 31422312835 on my bike) between the PVC spacer and the metal spring too. Otherwise the spacer might get chewed up and sprinkle PVC chips into the works below.

I used an injector the first time I changed fork oil and it was more trouble than it's worth. Subsequent times I just use a small funnel and pour sloooooowly.

Offline rbm

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Re: Progressive Fork Springs
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 10:35:57 PM »
According to Racetech founder, Paul Thede, thicker spring steel is lower quality than thinner.  Might be counter intuitive but for the same spring rate, thinner gauge wire for the coils requires higher quality in its manufacturer.  Also, you have to consider the number of active coils.  The more the number of coils, the softer the spring will be, and with a large number of heavy gauge coils, the spring will lock up much faster, giving you a harsh ride.  Do you find the front suspension stiff at the moment?  Do you have the correct amount of dynamic sag with the current preload?  What is the spring rate for the old spring / the new spring?  Lots to consider.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Progressive Fork Springs
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2016, 02:54:28 PM »
Tim and rbm,  Thanks for input.  I'm gonna take a chance and install the new Progressive Suspension springs.  I'll let you know, later this spring, how the ride feels.  Also, I sent rbm,'s "thicker spring steel is lower quality than thinner" discussion on to Progressive Suspension to see if they have an opinion.  I'll post their reply (if I get one).
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline slipring

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 37
Re: Progressive Fork Springs
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2016, 10:20:59 PM »
As promised... I did submit a couple fork spring questions to Progressive Suspension and got the following responses from Sean Delshadi, Marketing Manager at Progressive Suspension:


Q1.  Is thicker spring steel lower quality than thinner? And for the same spring rate, do thinner gauge coil wires require higher quality in their manufacture?

A1.  NOT NECESSARILY – A MORE CORRECT STATEMENT WOULD BE – FOR A GIVEN APPLICATION, A SPRING MADE FROM LARGER DIAMETER WIRE CAN BE MADE OF LOWER QUALITY SPRING STEEL SINCE IT WILL OPERATE WITH LOWER STRESS AND STILL DELIVER APPROPRIATE DURABILITY. LARGE DIAMETER WIRE= LOW STRESS, SMALL DIAMETER WIRE= HIGH STRESS (FOR A GIVEN APPLICATION).

 
Q2.  Is the following statement true?  You have to consider the number of active coils - the greater the number of coils, the softer the spring will be.

A2.  THIS STATEMENT IS TRUE IF THE SPRINGS BEING COMPARED ARE MADE FROM THE SAME WIRE DIAMETER AND THE SPRINGS HAVE THE SAME OUTER (OR INNER) DIAMETER.
 

Q3.  Also, is the following statement true?  With a large number of heavy gauge coils, the spring will lock up much faster, giving you a harsh ride.

A3.  NOT A TRUE OR FALSE QUESTION – THAT STATEMENT IS PURELY SUBJECTIVE.  IN REALITY, THE PERFORMANCE TARGETS OF THE SPRING GOVERN THE DESIGN DETAILS.


At this point - especially now that springs are installed and forks are back on my bike - I'm going to have to trust that these springs will work well for my bike and my riding style.  As I said below, I'll let you know my impressions later this spring.


p.s.  I'm a mechanical engineer and haven't really thought about springs / spring design since my coursework covered it 30 years ago.  Here are the parameters that effect spring performance:

    - Diameter of spring wire, d
    - Outer diameter of spring, D
    - Free length of spring, L       
    - Number of active coils, n
    - Youngs modulus* of material, E
    - Poisson ratio** of material, v
    - Density of material, p

*also known as the elastic modulus, is a measure of stiffness of an elastic material.  It is used to describe the elastic properties of objects like wires, rods or columns when they are stretched or compressed.  It defines the relationship between stress (force per unit area) and strain (proportional deformation) in a material. 

**A rod-like specimen subjected to uniaxial tension will exhibit some shrinkage in the lateral direction for most materials. The ratio of lateral strain and axial strain is defined as Poisson's ratio.  The Poisson ratio for most metals falls between 0.25 to 0.35.  Rubber has a Poisson ratio close to 0.5 and is therefore almost incompressible.  Theoretical materials with a Poisson ratio of exactly 0.5 are truly incompressible, since the sum of all their strains leads to a zero volume change.  Cork, at the other end, has a Poisson ratio close to zero.  This makes cork function well as a bottle stopper, since an axially-loaded cork will not swell laterally to resist bottle insertion.
  • Ames, Iowa
  • '92 K75
- Scott

Offline TimTyler

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Re: Progressive Fork Springs
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 11:11:04 PM »
Thanks for following-up, Scott.

I think the most important part of your post is "Youngs modulus* of material, E".

Okay, not really. IMO the take-home is the "purely subjective" statement.  Figure out how the ride feels with your new setup and you can make adjustments until you get things dialed in the way you want. Different spacer lengths, fork oils, oil quantities, changes to the rear suspension and probably other things can make a difference.

For me it took a better rear shock with lots of rear shock adjustments to make my front end feel better.

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