Oil filter removal

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I am pretty sure the filter is on the pressure side of the pump, so yes, it is possible to lose pressure if the filter loosens.  But that is no reason to crank the sucker down.  A half turn after the gasket touches is all it takes to keep it in place.  And don't forget to RUB a bit of oil into the mating surface of the gasket.

[Scud]

Just as a point of comparison, filter installing is a big issue over in Moto-Guzzi V11 land. The filters are similar to the K-bikes; they go in vertically through a cover in the sump. If a filters loosens it is not visible (unlike an external filter which will start leaking), it can cause a drop in oil pressure, which has been the cause of some bearing failures.

The "belts and braces" approach, which is seen as "extra insurance and peace of mind", is to install a hose clamp on the oil filter so it cannot work free (it's not for the extra tension, it's because there's something in the way and the screw on the clamp cannot rotate by it). This, however, necessitates the removal of the lower sump pan at every oil change, because the hose clamp must be removed before unscrewing the filter.

The other complication with the Guzzi engine, and I have not seen it mentioned here, is that the old filter gasket stays in place, then the new gasket (with filter) gets installed on top, and the two gaskets do not create a good seal.

Long meandering semi-relevant post... but back to our over-tightening issue. The recommendation for the oil filter in the Guzzis is 1.25 turns past gasket contact. This turns out to be suprisingly tight, but it can still be removed.

Any way - I had a low oil pressure issue on one of my Guzzis that took me a long time to find. I cannot tell you how many times people suggested checking and rechecking the filter (common cause of low pressure issue). FYI, the problem on mine was a missing tab on a gasket near an oil journal (causing internal leakage). Just this small tab missing made the difference between 20 PSI and 70 PSI at normal riding speeds. (and 5 vs. 25 at idle)

Soooo... the pressure was still high enough that the oil pressure light didn't come on. But I installed an oil pressure gauge right after I got the bike. Had I not installed the gauge, I would not have been aware of the problem and almost certainly would have had premature wear.

And finally getting around to F14s question - I think a loose (or missing) filter on a K-bike would work the same as on the Guzzis - a total loss of oil pressure.

[Laitch]

The other complication with the Guzzi engine, and I have not seen it mentioned here, is that the old filter gasket stays in place, then the new gasket (with filter) gets installed on top, and the two gaskets do not create a good seal.

This can happen with K-bikes too so checking for the old gasket and removing it if it's there is essential. An oil filter with a gasket that has been lubricated with a thin coating of oil mounted to a clean sealing surface with ½ or ¾  rotation after making contact will stay secure if the mounting surface has been correctly fabricated. If a thick coating of oil has been applied to the gasket it may not tighten securely and may eventually fall off.

Reefing on a filter to tighten it can crush internal components and compromise oil flow, but I'd guess almost everyone who works on engines knows that by now—maybe not, considering how many methods have been created to remove seized filters. :machinegun:

[jjs1234]

they have those oil filter ratchet grips. I would use that with sand-paper.


Hand-tighten the oil filter *note to self*

[F14CRAZY]

heh now that I think of it losing oil pressure would make sense. I posted about that early this morning so that's my excuse

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I was a marine diesel mechanic for a 10 years.  When I started the worst job I had was changing the filters the previous guy had installed.  Some of them took up to two hours to bludgeon off the engine.  The worst I ever ran into was a SeaRay with twin Mercruiser V-8's.  The filters were installed with dry gaskets at the factory and somebody later torqued them down even harder.   I had to take the filter mounts off the engines and put them in a vise in the shop where I had the room to swing a 24" pipe wrench(with a cheater).   

Morons should not be allowed to install oil filters.

[Chaos]

The only K engine I've seen seized up solid was one at a shop where the guy said the oil filter was on too loose, it unscrewed enough to loose pressure and blooie.  All with 4 quarts of 20-50 safely in the sump.

[Laitch]

The only K engine I've seen seized up solid was one at a shop where the guy said the oil filter was on too loose, it unscrewed enough to loose pressure and blooie.

The owner probably saw the warning light on and said "I've got to fix that light; it's annoying me" or "Only a few miles to go; I'll look at it in the morning."

[Martin]

+1 Laitch seen it done, or I'll just drive a bit slower, so it won't hurt. Mate screwed trailer taillights to his wife's dash with warning buzzers after she blew two engines. :hehehe
Regards Martin

[BlitzenGruv]

Bought the filter wrench based on the size of the new filter. Still couldn't get the old one off. I don't understand why there is oil in the filter chamber, but this is why the wrench slips.
Changed the oil, left the old filter in place. I guess some innertube rubber inside the filter wrench will get it off next time?

[Laitch]

Bought the filter wrench based on the size of the new filter. Still couldn't get the old one off. I don't understand why there is oil in the filter chamber, but this is why the wrench slips.
Changed the oil, left the old filter in place. I guess some innertube rubber inside the filter wrench will get it off next time?

The oil filter resides in the oil sump, not in its own chamber. You need a specialized filter wrench that both conforms to the indentations of the filter housing and also fits inside the filter access hole. Pictures are available at MaxBMW and alternatives are listed in the Workshop.

[Chaos]

Changed the oil, left the old filter in place. I guess some innertube rubber inside the filter wrench will get it off next time?

all sorts of different size filters fit that may not fit the right wrench.  Put the wrench on the filter and drill a couple sheet metal screws through it into the filter.  That should give you enough grip to get it off.  If not the ruined filter is good incentive to figure out some other way.  Worst case drop the oil pan and attack it with a hammer and chisel.

[jjs1234]

If you lay the bike on its side you may be able to exert enough upward force to stop it from slipping

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[johnny]

greetings jjs1234...

they only do that in canada... but only to the tip over bars... not all the way on its side...

j o