Author Topic: Blowing fuses  (Read 24578 times)

Offline k11pfc

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Blowing fuses
« on: July 10, 2011, 03:19:03 PM »
Hi, riding along in torrential rain today my fuel guage reading fell off then noticed Temp gauge also gone, checked fuses and it had blown, then it blew another straight away, so, where do I start looking for my problem? any help appreciated. Ta.
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Offline Scott_

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 04:07:48 PM »
Check the wiring to your heated grips if your bike has them.
Not uncommon for them to go bad, but sometimes causes more damage than just a blown fuse.
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Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 05:39:16 PM »
Check the wiring to your heated grips if your bike has them.
Not uncommon for them to go bad, but sometimes causes more damage than just a blown fuse.

No heated grips and I i didn't realise the brake lights shared the same circuit and I have just rode 345 miles home!!
Play up Pompey

Rick G

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 09:06:12 PM »
Starting point is to unplug all components i.e.brake switches & gauges etc that run off that fuse and then replace the fuse, the circuit will show which they are.
If it blows again then you have eliminated all the components and confined the problem to the wiring harnes.
If the fuse doesn't blow then plug the components in one by one and see when the fuse blows and you will have your culprit.
Check the wiring at the steering head and where it can rub anywhere as that is a common place to find a shorting problem in the main harness.
If you still havent got anywhere get back for more advice.

Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 04:28:41 PM »
Checked the wiring without dismantling anything, sprayed all the switches, took the brake light bulb out cleaned all connections changed the bulb put new fuse in, washed bike with copious amounts of water and the fuse is OK. Which is annoying in a way.
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Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2011, 10:54:01 AM »
Fuse still blowing, unplugged  back lighs, also gauges, got tank off cleaned earth, visually checked brake light switches and still blowing, what next HELP!!! :?
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Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2011, 12:18:45 PM »
Can someone confirm all fuses are 15 amp on the k1100rs? also where can I get hold of a wiring diagram?
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Offline bobw

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2011, 02:26:22 PM »
These may help along with a multimeter to check the component groups. I've found checking while turning the bars and moving the harness around can sometimes help locate the fault area. Electronic trouble shooting is tedious, but systematic baby steps will bring into focus the area to be repaired (you could come play on my Italian beauties and the BMW would then automatically look like a piece of cake  ;D). When it starts making me cross eyed, I just back off and ponder the symptoms and my progress, the good thing is it will always be the last place you looked, but hopefully not one checked too many times previously while missing something.

Good luck, when Dr.frankenduck returns he likely has a schematic that can help direct your efforts, but here is a link that may get you going.



http://www.k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4715
currently riding an aprilia Futura
previous motorcycles
Moto Guzzi Stelvio
BMW R1200R
Triumph Sprint
Triumph Bonnie
many, many others over 45 years from Honda to Hodaka

Offline k11pfc

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  • From Portsmouth UK and Riding a 1994 K1100rs
Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2011, 02:28:57 PM »
Sorry I know I'm a pain but what is connected on this circuit, Brake lights, fuel and temp gauges....anything else?
Play up Pompey

Offline k11pfc

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  • From Portsmouth UK and Riding a 1994 K1100rs
Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2011, 02:33:30 PM »
These may help along with a multimeter to check the component groups. I've found checking while turning the bars and moving the harness around can sometimes help locate the fault area. Electronic trouble shooting is tedious, but systematic baby steps will bring into focus the area to be repaired (you could come play on my Italian beauties and the BMW would then automatically look like a piece of cake  ;D). When it starts making me cross eyed, I just back off and ponder the symptoms and my progress, the good thing is it will always be the last place you looked, but hopefully not one checked too many times previously while missing something.

Good luck, when Dr.frankenduck returns he likely has a schematic that can help direct your efforts, but here is a link that may get you going.



http://www.geezer site.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4715

Hi, thanks for encouraging words, link unfortunately didn't work.
Play up Pompey

Offline bobw

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 02:38:44 PM »
Haha, it's set up to insert the "geezer" into the address.

These may help along with a multimeter to check the component groups. I've found checking while turning the bars and moving the harness around can sometimes help locate the fault area. Electronic trouble shooting is tedious, but systematic baby steps will bring into focus the area to be repaired (you could come play on my Italian beauties and the BMW would then automatically look like a piece of cake  ). When it starts making me cross eyed, I just back off and ponder the symptoms and my progress, the good thing is it will always be the last place you looked, but hopefully not one checked too many times previously while missing something.

Good luck, when Dr.frankenduck returns he likely has a schematic that can help direct your efforts, but here is a link that may get you going.

http://www.dch.co.za/motorbikes/K1100Man/K1100LT.pdf

http://www.carlsalter.com/motorcycle-manuals.asp

http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/DiagramsMain.aspx?vid=51713&rnd=03252011

just click on the electrical system you are interested in.

Cheers
currently riding an aprilia Futura
previous motorcycles
Moto Guzzi Stelvio
BMW R1200R
Triumph Sprint
Triumph Bonnie
many, many others over 45 years from Honda to Hodaka

Rick G

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 09:25:24 PM »
Your heated grips also work off that fuse and the reading light.

Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 01:37:50 PM »
Ok, now I'm really confused and frustrated, I have the bike stripped speedo, tank, seat all off to look at wires and possible shorts but can't find anything wrong, so what now? also, what amp fuses are they? if I put a fifteen amp in, it will blow and take another one with it, I think the fuel pump circuit. so what fuses should I have in? the manuals conflict, some say all 15 others the other one says 5 amp so I am confused as hell. The fuse that blows is the one that is on the fuel and temp gauge, brake monitor and brake light circuit. I really am struggling please help.
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Offline bobw

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 04:13:48 PM »
Have a time away from this to clear your head, the smoke has escaped from the proper wires, but it can be replaced (even on Lucas equipment). Make sure battery cables and earth connections are clean and properly snugged. Double check the harness in that there are no signs of damage from improper routing that caused pinching, cuts, chaffing, over stretched/binding, bad splices, etc. Be critical in your assessment as it doesn't take much to cause a failure. I once had a zip tie hold the harness too tight near the head stock and this caused one of the pins in a connector to separate as it wasn't fully seated internally. Bars to the left, lights on and we have ignition, to the right it was no start and no lights, but if done after starting it would keep running. Love the Italians, it affected the start circuit only and wiggling the wires duplicated it like it was an internal stretch and failure, but it wasn't. Finally after checking 1 or maybe 100 more times  ::) I noticed the unseated pin amongst the others and it would simply move in or out from contact as the bars moved the harness. A fully seated pin and/or a little more slack would likely have kept her working fine. BMW also had "stretching" failures from harnesses being installed too tight in the headstock area, so keep an open mind as to what "looks good" may have succumbed to a minor, yet still critical failure.   

Regardless (for the moment) 15 or 5 amp being spec'd, the systems were fine and working previous to this failure (correct?) with whatever fuses were installed, so something new, be it moisture, chaffed insulation or a bad connection, etc., came into play on this ride.

Not being there it is hard to see your situation nor observe your protocols and abilities in trouble shooting so please don't be offended in my points or questions.

You pulled apart the connections and sprayed them with cleaner. Did you remove them all from the circuit and did she still pop a fuse with everything "off line"? If she passed this test, did you then systematically reconnect one at a time checking the new fuse as you went along?  At the magic point of connectivity the culprit would/should overload the fuse and that would have been a huge tell on where to make the repair.

If you did something similar to the above and all the components "passed" the simple R+R test and the way you describe the "new" failures taking other circuits fuses out leads me to think it has to be a dead short in the wiring itself. Did you use a multimeter or other means to check continuity when the connection plugs were apart? Do not assume anything and make doubly sure any added crimp or other type spliced connections are proper and insulated (soldering is best).

Trying to ask clearly, but if not, hopefully the gist of what I'm describing makes sense to you. Finding electric faults is not hard per se, but it can be hard on you. Keep it simple and methodical and you'll have it. Maybe a knowledgeable mate with a fresh set of eyes can give you a hand and double check some stuff with you, even just an extra pair of hands during testing can make a quicker and less frustrating job of it.


Good luck   


currently riding an aprilia Futura
previous motorcycles
Moto Guzzi Stelvio
BMW R1200R
Triumph Sprint
Triumph Bonnie
many, many others over 45 years from Honda to Hodaka

Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2011, 04:39:27 PM »
Thanks Bobw I will take some time away and go through all your points again, slowly..It doesn't help that on occasions the fuse doesn't blow immediately and when this happens I wiggle and push and prod and just when I think I must have done something...bang!! But anyway I'll try again Tomorrow evening. Cheers.
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Offline Scott_

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2011, 07:00:52 PM »
Something you might give a try, this should also save you some money on fuses.

Find yourself a decent wattage 12vdc lamp, like an old headlamp bulb.(but it has to be a good one. ::))
Connect across the open fuse wires.
The intent here is that as you have no fault the lamp will be out(off). When you are messing with the wires and find your short/fault the lamp will light up(on).

Don't use an led lamp or test light as I not sure how well it would pass the current.
A head lamp bulb will pass sufficient current without burning anything up.

An old electricians trick from many moons ago when edison base fuse boxes were still popular. Unsrew the fuse, screw in the lamp, when you clear you fault, the lamp goes out.
  • My Garage
1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
1997 K1100LT 0302488 (R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb

Offline frankenduck

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2011, 08:14:38 AM »
Fuse #1 is switched power to quite a few things.  My guess would be that one of the green/black wires is chafed and shorting somewhere.  The output from that fuse will go to a clump of green black wires covered by a blue cap that distributes that switched power to a number of items:

- Front brake switch
- Rear brake switch
- Bulb monitor unit
- Heated grips (the wiring to the connector is still there even if you don't have HGs installed)
- Fuel and temp gauges

If you've looked at everything and still can't find the short then you need to take a methodological approach to finding your short.

If the short is downstream of either brake switch (through the BMU to the brake light) then that should be easy to diagnose as the fuse won't blow until you apply one of the brake switches.  Also check under the right peg plate to make sure the rear brake light wiring hasn't been pinched under one of the mounting bolts or is chafed and grounding.

If the short is downstream of the BMU then that should be easy to diagnose by removing the BMU to see if the short goes away.

Heated grip wiring:  You may have to dig for it as it will probably be taped to a wiring clump but you should find a black "T" connector along the left frame rail under the tank with green/black and brown wires going into it.  Remove the #1 fuse and check for continuity from the #1 fuse output to the green black wire of that HG connector.  Also check the green/black wire from that conector for continuity to ground - if it has continuity to ground then that's your short and the issue may be inside one of the wiring clumps.

Fuel and temp gauges:  If you follow the wiring from the fuel and temp gauges then you should find an intermediate wiring harness that connects the gauges to the main wiring harness.  Unplug that from the main wiring harness to see if that makes your short go away.

If none of those approaches work then follow the output from the #1 fuse.  It should be a green/black wire that goes to a clump of green/black wires (most likely with a blue or yellow plastic cap over it.)  If you cut all of the wires to that clump then that will allow you to diagnose the circuits one by one to find your short.  Note that once you have things sorted out that you'll need to reassemble that clump - I'd twist all of the wires back together, solder the hell out of them and then cover your new clump with several layers of heat shrink tubing.
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Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2011, 03:35:04 PM »
OK, so far I have disconnected fuel and temp gauge, unplugged rear brake light, disconnected both brake light switches, still the fuse popped, sometimes the fuse doesn't go instantly and it leads me into thinking I have wiggled problem away all seems fine without engine running and no matter what I do the fuse stays intact. Run the bike and at somepoint in next 10 Min's fuse will blow! Off the back of Fuse #1 both wires are green/black and I can't see this group of wires you are referring to Duck, also my bike has no heated grips, so that's one thing it can't be. I'll give it a couple more sessions before I call someone in who knows what they're doing I think. I would love to solve this myself but really don't hold out much hope. Any more tips hints or ideas really will be appreciated.
Play up Pompey

Offline Inge K.

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2011, 04:14:00 PM »
It`s one like this, but with your green/black wires is what the doctor have in mind I`ll guess.
It`s a bunch of green wires in middle/bottom of the picture, but probably not the correct one.

Inge K.
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2011, 09:04:16 PM »
As stated, regardless of whether or not your bike has heated grips installed it still has the connector for them in the main wiring harness. Get it?  If that positive wire is chafed and shorting in the wiring harness bunch of wires then that could be causing your problem.

Both the input to fuse #1 and the output from fuse #1 are green/black wires.  To figure out which is the input and which is the output pull the fuse and put a voltmeter to each side.  The one that reads 12V with the bike turned on is the input side.  I think it's the front but haven't played with that stuff in a while.  The one that doesn't read 12V is the output side - follow that wire to the clump.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
New to K bikes? Click here.
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Offline k11pfc

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2011, 01:53:13 PM »
Well I have reluctantly had to call in reinforcements to help, I have tried everything in my limited but willing knowledge possible. So I have an auto electrician coming in an hour.
Play up Pompey

Offline bobw

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2011, 04:47:25 PM »
I can appreciate your frustration, but keep in mind you are in the company of many who have needed a hand with an elusive wiring short.

The good thing is the K's are like BMW cars modified to work around two wheels so a good car man should be right at home with her. Best keep an eye on him though, one look at the sexy Kay and he may want to fondle her beyond that of a proper Doctor and Patient relationship  :o

Good luck
currently riding an aprilia Futura
previous motorcycles
Moto Guzzi Stelvio
BMW R1200R
Triumph Sprint
Triumph Bonnie
many, many others over 45 years from Honda to Hodaka

Offline k11pfc

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  • From Portsmouth UK and Riding a 1994 K1100rs
Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
Now I'm even more frustrated, It took the guy precisely 3 Min's to find the short I spent at least 4 hours looking for!! Oh well at least I've learnt a few things, I'll be better prepared next time. Thanks to everyone who gave advice/encouragement. Bike all back together and a good blast...Just what I needed.
Play up Pompey

Offline Scott_

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2011, 06:01:19 PM »
And the short was located where?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
  • My Garage
1995 K1100LT 0302044
2017 FLHTK Ultra Limited
1997 K1100LT 0302488 (R.I.P.)
1997 R1100RT ZC62149(sold)
"One who does not ask questions is ashamed to learn" Danish proverb

Offline Inge K.

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Re: Blowing fuses
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2011, 06:06:37 PM »
And the reason to the problem was? Could be nice to know and have in mind...
if it`s weak point in wiring harness...switches...whatever.

Inge K.
  • Norway

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