Battery Power.....Got my Yeehaw Back :-D

[bizzaro]

It would seem that my battery has shit the bed...........................I hope. But I do get 12.27 volts when I check it. Is that enough juice to start a K1100LT?  I guess I could have a bad battery cell. The battery is very old,(warranty label says 2007, which I guess would be warrantied to 2009). My engine starts to turn over, but doesn't even crank a whole cycle.  Starter is engaging engine, and engine begins ever so briefly to crank.  Then stops.  I do have jumper cables that I used from my car battery which worked for several starts, but now it will not crank it over either.  I did overheat just before this, using the jumper cables, syncing throttle bodies, and the fan, which has worked in the past, did not come on.  I am concerned I may have damaged something in the electronics by using my car battery to start and run it? IShouldn't my car battery at least crank over the engine...................even if the bike battery has a dead cell? :musicboohoo:

I am getting pretty discouraged with the whole motobrick thing, and starting to wish I never bought the SOB!  :falldown: Just about ready to push it over a cliff.........................Maybe I should copy this and post it in dissenters paradise. 


NEWPOST>>>>>>>All Good!!! :riding: That fresh battery has my bike running and working better than ever! Yeehaw factor is back TEN thumbs up for Beemerboneyard. Ordered the battery Sunday night and it was here when I got home from work tonight, Tuesday.  With my sweetheart holding the light etc. to finish up what I didn't get it back together before dark , we got er done. Cleaned up connections, including grounds under the fuel tank and used dielectric grease on all of them.  Hot wired the cooling fan to make sure it was working. Topped off the coolant in the reserve tank and the radiator. It started right up and ran great. The fresh battery even appears to have fixed the ABS faulting constantly!  (another reason I was suspicious of the old battery, and it still reads 12.5+ volts! Hell the new one only reads 12.89) So far, only a couple or three starts, the ABS has worked perfectly! Oh, before I forget, should I charge the new battery? I didn't because of a post by F14 CRAZY I just happened to read last night.

Now on to the rebuilding of the rear brake caliper.

And it is running really rich. Plugs are black and wet, but I burn no oil really?

And a BIG SHOUT OUT TO ALL THAT CHIMED IN HERE....................THANK YOU ALL!! :clap:

[johnny]

greetings...

id getts a new battery... the internationally accepted moto method of jump starting from a car is to go battery to battery without starting the car... it has been known to cause whack if the car is running...

stick with it... sounds like you are done with whack for a while...

j o

[F14CRAZY]

greetings...

id getts a new battery... the internationally accepted moto method of jump starting from a car is to go battery to battery without starting the car... it has been known to cause whack if the car is running...

stick with it... sounds like you are done with whack for a while...

j o

I once jump started a car with my motobrick (brick was turning)...is that internationally accepted?

[bizzaro]

Thanks for the encouragement Johnny.  I trickle charged the battery. It is up to 12.89 volts, (up from 12.27 volts,).  It only took a long hour and the charger says it is fully charged.  I have been suspicious of the battery.  I get ABS failure about 90% of the time.  I will check it in the morning and see if the voltage has dropped.  I am not sure where to get one of the recommended battery's in my part of the woods.  I do have a BMW dealer close by.

 If I knew the bike was a strong runner, I wouldn't hesitate to get a new battery and continue working on it, but  I also have what I think is engine knock.  I believe it is either a piston wrist pin, or connecting rod bearing.  Also it shifts like a shit, ESPECIALLY 1st to 2nd. Really doggy low end RPM"s.  Probably throttle bodies, injectors, or timing.  Probably all three  I am not a mechanic,(nor proficient motobricker)! The long and the short of it is this bike needs lot's o work and I don't know if I am up to it? I guess it is all a process.

OK Done my whinning for tonight. (where the hell is the balling baby icon!?)

[Motorhobo]

I had a bad battery that registered 12+ volts but still wouldn't power the start. It's not the voltage value that matters when the battery starts to go south, but the amperage. The battery has to produce enough cold cranking amps (CCA) to do the work of cranking the engine. I had a similar issue -- ended up pulling the battery and having it tested at a local auto parts store. Result -- 12.6 volts, CCA more or less 0. Replaced battery, no problem since. See link below:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,6199.msg41315.html#msg41315

I don't know if you've trashed anything electrical by jumping from a running car but I suspect that if your battery is dead with no CCA, no amount of foreign voltage will give it the amperage it needs to do work. It's like if a car battery is totally dead it won't take a jump -- I've had that happen to me with cars, and in that case the only solution is to replace the battery.

So -- IMO your best bet is to just bite the bullet and dish out for a new battery. You can get a low-cost battery at a battery warehouse for around $50. It'll last maybe a year, maybe longer if you keep it on a battery tender. You can get the existing battery tested at an auto parts store but a lot of them can't test MC batteries reliably. But bottom line -- not a good idea to play dice with the battery -- low CCA can cause all kinds of whack, some of which might be critical.

My $0.02...

[bizzaro]

Westco Battery on the way from Beemerboneyard.  Hobo,  I saw your battery link doing searches.  And the car was not running when I jumped it at first. And the bike battery started it on its own a few times after the original car jump. but then decided not to work anymore so I hooked up the car battery again?  I tried it with a straight battery jump, and nothing but a half crank, so then I tried with the car running and still just a little 1/2 a crank and it would not start? So I only tried it with the car running when it wouldn't turn over much. Hopefully no harm done? Thanks for chiming in.
If you see me hitchhiking...............give the man a ride..LOL!

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Don't throw in the towel yet.  But don't be in a hurry to get it on the road this year either, especially if you're new to wrenching on these wonderful beasts. 

I know that the favorite battery around here is the Odyssey, but I have two Scorpion glass mat(AGM) batteries in my bricks.  One of them has been in use for 2 seasons and over 15,000 miles and they both have performed flawlessly turning the starter with authority every time even in the winter with a minimum of attention and/or trickle charging.  Neither of them cost over $90.

http://www.batterystuff.com/powersports-batteries/sYT51913-22.html

Regarding the hard shifting between 1st and 2nd, have you done the clutch spline lube yet?  It's a whole day job for a virgin motobricker, but the results are dramatic in how it helps smooth out the changing of gears.  Fortunately for most riders it's a once every two or three year job. 

Anyway, if you order from Battery Stuff, you'll have it in 2 days.  Use that time to clean the starter brushes, battery connections and the grounds.  Coat them with some dielectric grease and you'll be ready to go when the new battery arrives.  You might also want to take some time to check for air leaks in the rubber bits.

Main thing is to relax and understand this is a courtship/foreplay ritual you are going through and the more attention you pay now, the greater the pleasure at the end. 

[rbm]

The 1/2 crank symptom is strange; does anyone else think this is strange?  Could you try removing the spark plugs and then cranking?  I'm wondering if something is preventing the engine from turning over.

Jump starting a bike from a running car is dangerous because the load dump that occurs when you disconnect the leads could damage the sensitive electronics on the motorcycle.  Using a car battery straight up is ok.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Rob, if the battery is really weak or the ground is bad, I wouldn't be surprised if the starter stalled as the engine came up on the first compression stroke.

I also wonder how good the jump connection is at the bike end.  Those battery terminals aren't the easiest to get big jumper cable clamps on. 

I hope the starter relay isn't whacked.

[rbm]

Jim, the OP wrote: "I tried it with a straight battery jump, and nothing but a half crank, so then I tried with the car running and still just a little 1/2 a crank and it would not start."  So I'm assuming here the car battery is healthy.  Even a weaker car battery has enough oomph to turn over a K-bike.  But these attempts resulted in a 1/2 crank.  Hmmmm.

Totally agree with you on bad grounds or poor connections can be troublesome.

[bizzaro]

Thanks Gryph and rbm. "I'm wondering if something is preventing the engine from turning over." My fears exactly!  I have been driving the bike in between repairs since May.  It has sat a few days recently and I needed a spin. The bike cranked and turned over, but would not start. I pushed it over to the car and hooked up the cables with the car not running and it started.  I was checking to see if the throttle body sync had changed since the last time just days before. I was warming up the bike to check the throttle bodies.  The bike battery started the bike several times after this while checking the sync.  Then the battery quit starting the bike. The bike did get hot enough to blow the overflow tank cover off, and the fan did not come on like usual? So, after letting it cool down, I tried the jumpers again from the car, with the car not running. The starter engaged, but not enough to fire the bike up, or turn over much.  So I started the car and tried again. Same show. Starter engaged. A bit of a crank and that's it. not even a full turn of the engine.  I was worried about welding the starter contacts so I quit as the rain blew into my shade tree garage.       

 Home made jumpers with 12 or 14 gauge wire and pinch clips.  Much easier to clip on small batteries.

I had a similar incident last year with an old battery on my ATV.  Bad cells, 12 volts no/slow not full engine crank. I pray that's what it is.

[rbm]

Pull the starter and bench test it to confirm that it works.  Make sure to secure it firmly to a base before testing; the torque is tremendous.

There is a way to hand crank the engine.  You turn the engine at the crankshaft (direction of rotation: anti-clockwise) located under the hall effect sensor plate.

[bizzaro]

How about put it in gear and rotate the back wheel with the plugs out?

[Scott_]

Still wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the plugs.
If he really overheated it, could he have blown the head gasket and filled a cylinder with water that could now be hydro locking it?

Just a theoretical question here...... These brick engines are pretty robust, and can take a lot of abuse.... :2thumbup:

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I don't recall you mentioning how many miles on the bike.

Did the temperature light come on?  Do you have a temperature gauge?  If so, what did it read?  How long were you running the engine before it wouldn't start? 

What is the condition of the ground connections and the starter brushes?  Are the ground terminals and the frame under them nice and clean and shiny?  Have you coated them with a film of dielectric grease?  Just 0.1 ohm of resistance in a connection can drop the voltage at the starter by 1 volt.  It will also convert some of the current flowing through the connection to heat.  Guess what, that heat will RAISE the resistance in the connection, causing even more voltage to be lost. 

Not only will a bad connection limit the voltage available to the starter, but it will also limit how much of a charge you can get on the battery. 

It also sounds like your battery isn't holding much of a charge and has some internal current leakage going on.  How old is it?

[bizzaro]

Scott, Gryph, it overheated, but no warning light, well into the red. Thats why I shut it off. Especially since the fan suddenly didn't work. the fan usually runs strong. And the bike started back up several times from the bike battery after the original jump.

35k on the bike.  I ran it for about 20 minutes to get it warm enough to test T B. Shut it off when it approached the red. Have no idea about the starter brushes, but the starter is trying to turn the engine over. Battery terminals clean and greased, but not with dielectric.  The battery is old and has been a suspect for a while.

AHH, yes they definitely rounded up for me. being a half wit-that is. 

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I think you should get a new battery before any more attempts to start.  Especially if, as you say, the present battery is suspect.

If indeed the engine overheated, letting it cool "should" let it crank again.  Unless you were revving the piss out of it when it overheated I wouldn't think there is any damage done.  It's probably just a case of some unequal thermal expansion.  At 35k I would guess that your engine is still a bit on the tight side.  Turning the rear wheel in fifth gear should break loose anything that is still stuck after things cool down.

[bizzaro]

Thanks again Gryph,
Like I said, Battery is on its way.  Boneyard is usually damn fast.  Old battery is out to resist temptation.  I will clean up the grounds on the bike while I wait for the battery. And I will "hopefully be able to turn the engine over with the back tire and the bike in 5th.................................
I always turned the bike off before it got to the middle of the last hot area.  I don't think it overheated to do damage unless the gauge and sensor are not accurate?

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Good luck with the new battery.  Keep us posted.

[bizzaro]

All Good!!! :riding: That fresh battery has my bike running and working better than ever! Yeehaw factor is back TEN thumbs up for Beemerboneyard. Ordered the battery Sunday night and it was here when I got home from work tonight, Tuesday.  With my sweetheart holding the light etc. to finish up what I didn't get it back together before dark , we got er done. Cleaned up connections, including grounds under the fuel tank and used dielectric grease on all of them.  Hot wired the cooling fan to make sure it was working. Topped off the coolant in the reserve tank and the radiator. It started right up and ran great. The fresh battery even appears to have fixed the ABS faulting constantly!  (another reason I was suspicious of the old battery, and it still reads 12.5+ volts! Hell the new one only reads 12.89) So far, only a couple or three starts, the ABS has worked perfectly! Oh, before I forget, should I charge the new battery? I didn't because of a post by F14 CRAZY I just happened to read last night.

Now on to the rebuilding of the rear brake caliper.

Then trying to find out why it is running so rich? Plugs are black and wet, but I burn no oil to speak of??

Thanks to all
See Ya In The Twisties,
Bizz

[rbm]

Good job!  Glad it wasn't some mechanical engine problem.

The rich mixture could be related to the temperature sensor in the radiator stand pipe at the front of the engine.  Usual suspects - bad contacts, or failing sensor.  Check both, but it will require the rad to be removed.

[bizzaro]

Robert. I can clean up the connections, but have no idea how to test the sensor. Sadly, I am pretty much an R&R Wrencher!(remove and replace)

And I did turn it over in fifth gear last night. Even with the plugs out is wasn't that easy? And a little oil is present at all the spark plug holes. But I haven't burned half a quart of oil,probably much less,  in 4000 miles?

I put new plugs in last night as well. I may have not been torquing them tight enough by hand as I didn't want to strip one.   Last night I used a torque wrench and it was more than I have been guessing at for torque for sure. 

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Good to hear the new battery has things working again.  12.89 volts is a full charge.  A new battery shouldn't need any charging beyond a few minutes of running the engine after the first start, that is assuming you didn't have to crank excessively to get the engine to start.

FYI Your battery probably has something like 20amp hours capacity.  A normal start, while drawing up to 250 amps, actually only uses less than 0.1amp hours of battery capacity because the starter only runs for a second or so.  It only takes the alternator about a minute or so to replace that amperage.

[bizzaro]

 :riding: The bike stared immediately with the new battery in! First crank! :clap: