Dirty Starter Whack and some Questions

[Freelancer]

So,
   I go out today to start prepping for my ride to the Rockies and the Black Hills and the bike won't start.
   The clock is on, battery is fully charged, fuel pump pressurizes when key is turned to on position, and solenoid clicks when I hit the start button.

The Symptoms-
   -Went over some very rough RR tracks and the BMU light started to flicker the last time I rode her.
   -Go out to check the bulbs and inspect the bike today and at first everything seemed ok. Lights turned on, but when I started the bike all of the lights went out.
   -Turn bike off to check battery. Batt shows good but now no lights and won't try to start.  :swear: I start thinking bad grounds/dirty connections, ooorr... Starter issue.
   -Check connections at battery, motronic, alternator and chassis ground. No improvement.
   -Do Johnny's back the bike up in gear trick.  :yippee:  :swear:  The bike starts .... but no lights unless I rev to 4k. Shut bike off and it won't start again.

   -Finally, I take a small hammer & ten penny nail and give the starter a few "love" taps. Eureka :yippee: She starts right up and all lights work normal. Repeated process and no sign of the issue.

  Additional info- Bike is a '91 K100RS, 77k miles


   Now, for my questions:

   -If she is back to running fine, "Do I still need to pull the starter and clean it?"
   -Will the carbon/dirt work its way out or will it just build up?

Please keep in mind that I am trying to leave for a 3k+ mile trip in 3 days.
   -Is this is just a tap it every now and then until the next service at the end of the trip?
-or-
   -Does this require immediate service?
   -If so, how long does it take?
   -Is it a simple battery and starter removal or is it more complicated?

Help and advice very much appreciated,
Freelancer

[rbm]

Head in the direction of Las Vegas.  If you get there without the bike dying on the way, immediately start betting the house at the casinos (because your in the middle of a HUGE lucky streak).  :eek:

If you're feeling lucky, don't tempt fate and use the love taps if you get problems on the way.  You can also bump start in a squeeze.

[F14CRAZY]

It isn't that hard to get to, at least on my C. It wouldn't hurt to take it out, open it up, lectra-clean everything, check the brushes (probably getting thin) and throwing it back together.

Head in the direction of Las Vegas.  If you get there without the bike dying on the way, immediately start betting the house at the casinos (because your in the middle of a HUGE lucky streak).  :eek:

If you're feeling lucky, don't tempt fate and use the love taps if you get problems on the way.  You can also bump start in a squeeze.

Remember to hold the starter button as you want the fuel pump to run

[Freelancer]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I read up on it and it is simple with one exception...... kinda short on time to order in a rebuild kit and closest dealer eats up half a day "if" they have the parts.

Anyone know a place where I can get a starter rebuild kit in Texas by Saturday morning?

  I know, I know....it can be cleaned but I like to be thorough and efficient/lazy(Don't do job twice if you can do it right the first time.). :yes

Also, Anybody know how many miles the brushes last on average?

I know that it would vary according to city vs highway riding and maintenance. Just was wondering if 77k is in the average mark or low.

Thanks,
Freelancer

[mw074]

At the very least, take it apart and clean it.

[Scott_]

When you take it apart, make sure you clearly mark how the end plates connect to the main body. Specifically front to back. You don't want to get it backwards, or you will be doing it again.......

[TX brick]

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/starter-cleaning/starter-cleaning.shtml

[johnny]

greetings freelancer...

on top of mt hood... sunday afternoon... 200 miles from hotel... 38 degrees... dense fog... no start... took abouts 20 back spin roll backs to getts it to fire every time... put another 70 thousand on it with regular back spin roll backs... never did it again... if it was me... id ride it until it wont move... go getts some yeeeeehaaaaaaaa...

j o

[Freelancer]

Well,....

  I pobably should have listened to Johnny and chanced it. Ended up not being able to go on my trip this week because of the starter rebuild. But there may be something of value in my experiences this week.

  I have no problem wrenching in and of itself. It is the little things that I seem to uniquely attract. It is these little problems that drive me to thoroughly research any thing new that I plan to tackle. This is why I asked for input on what seemed to be and pretty much always should be a 1 hour job.

  Yes, I said "should be". Got the parts from the local dealer because it was Saturday and I rying to leave Sun. Nite/Mon. Morning.
   Well, got the starter out in no time :2thumbup:........to only find that the starter cases screws seemed to have been either impacted in or loctited. No, problem, "Right?"....  :swear:.."Wrong!".
    First Phillips head bit shattered, wtf?... . Ok, maybe a factory flaw but just in case, applied a bit of pb blater to the thead ends and waited a bit.
 
   The second bit deformed and started to come out of the slots. Mind, I was using a hand driver + wrench and slowly increasing pressure.
 
   Next, I broke out the screw gun and set the clutch to 15.. One screw deformed a little but then it made a loud "pop!"  And came out.
    The other....yep, you guessed it. Stripped the head and had to "easy" it out.

  Now for me, this is all par for the course and to be expected. What made this a problem is that there wasn't an auto supply or hardware store in the whole state that could match the stripped/damaged screws.

  Turns out that, currently, BMW only has 5 of these screws in the country and they're all at the warehouse in California. Only 4 (really 5) days mail away. ... Well could have been 4 if I was willing to pay half the cost of an aftermarket starter in shipping. The extra time is because BMW Motorrad will only ship to a dealer.

Tldr;
So, moral of the story is, ... If you are going to work on the starter, you might want to order in a spare case screw or two to have on hand before you start.

-Or-

Before there is a problem, pick up a cheap but working  starter for your parts closet.

As I was writing this, found out that the screws will get here tomorrow.

Later,
Freelancer

[Freelancer]

A few quick questions.


 Is there a reason why one would/should use thread locker?

(I can see where these vibrating loose could be a problem but the Clymer gives no hints or torque values.) This brings me to the next question.

   Any idea on how tight to set these?

   There is no specific torque value listed in the Clymer. Only thing I could find was a general reference chart in the front of the book that gives values based on screw/bolt size. These values seem a bit low.

Freelancer

[rbm]

6-8 NM should be sufficient.  That's why the Philips heads and not socket head or hex head screws are used.

[Conrad325i]

For future reference to all... If you need hardware quickly...
McMaster-Carr will have your order shipped by the end of the day and 9/10 times it will be at your house the next day.
And if they dont have what you need then you arent looking for what you actually need.
Also they have a great iphone app

[K1300S]

Yup.   I use McMaster-Carr regularly.

[Conrad325i]

Freelancer,

What were your exact symptoms of your no-start condition?

I have no power at all with the key on except the clock.

I can jump from the batery to the starter with a wire to turntge motor over but i have no power to the comp so i dont get fuel (and maybe spark, didnt check).