Author Topic: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal  (Read 31477 times)

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2015, 01:58:55 PM »
Rbm, OK, that sounds like progress.  So the brown wire inside the sensor I was thinking was the ground is actually one of the thermistors? And the red wire is the other. I guess I still don't know which pin is for the 4L light, and which is for the 7L light, but trial and error should resolve that.  I can see the pin that the purple wire connects to.  That would mean that the ground is the pin fed by the two gray wires.

So excluding the funky connectors and wire colors that someone inserted between the sensor pins and the original (I hope) wire harness, the "original" wire colors heading toward the instrument cluster are: brown, brown/black, brown/white, and green/white or yellow (could be discolored). Looking at the instrument pin cluster arrangement you posted, the 4L wire should be brown/ white at pin 7, the 7L should be brown/black at pin 8 (which I apparently am not going to get to work), and pins 13 and 18 both show as grounds, color brown. The color unaccounted for at the cluster is my green/white (or green/yellow). Could this be 12V power? If so, should it be connected to the sensor pin connected to the purple fuel pump wire?  Looking at your color schematic, it looks like there is a green/white wire that goes to the #6 fuse.

Sorry for all these basic questions, and I appreciate your patience on a problem that no doubt is trivial to most people.  Can't wait till I get to the spline lube job, among other things!
  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline rbm

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2015, 03:39:10 PM »
The color unaccounted for at the cluster is my green/white (or green/yellow). Could this be 12V power?
Yes, it is 12V power for the fuel pump coming off fuse #6.


Quote from: rogan
If so, should it be connected to the sensor pin connected to the purple fuel pump wire?  Looking at your color schematic, it looks like there is a green/white wire that goes to the #6 fuse.
Yes, see my answer above.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2015, 05:10:34 PM »
OK, I reconnected the wires using the existing connectors, all of which tested having good continuity back to the multipin connector on the back of the instrument cluster, (and the green/yellow power lead back to the #6 fuse), but matching the original wiring harness colors to the pins coming off the fuel sensor as discussed above. I also swapped the connectors for the two thermistors (the brown and red wires inside the sensor) back and forth, but still didn't get the 4L lamp on the dash to light.

Seems like that should have worked, so I'm still perplexed.  I've already tested the bulb and its socket several times.  I suppose there could be a fault on a circuit inside the cluster at the bottom of all this.
  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline rbm

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2015, 07:10:32 PM »
Can you confirm that the lamp contacts the metal film on each side of the slot into which the lamp plugs?  The bare metal ends have to stick into the hole and the lamp has to contact them.  A common problem is accidently lifting the flaps when removing the lamp bulb.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2015, 07:15:56 PM »
Yes, I've been careful to check the copper flaps each time I put the bulbs back in, and have cleaned off the socket contacts in case that was the problem.
  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline rbm

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2015, 07:43:57 PM »
 It might be a defective fuel sender circuit card.  It could be a broken trace on the flexicard in the instrument cluster.  I'm out of ideas for the moment.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2015, 12:09:06 PM »
Yes, those seem like the likeliest possiblities at this point.  I assume that contacts T1  and T1 prime on the PCB relate to the 7L circuit, since those are the ones with no connections present on the blue flexi overlay , and we've concluded that I have an '86 or later overlay;  and contacts T2 and T2 prime are for the 4L circuit.

Since I can't really troubleshoot the PCB or overlay, except for looking for broken connections, I guess (other than living with it) my best option is to look for used parts that aren't too expensive to take a chance on.

I did come across this modification that was posted in 2002, but it seems like this would be more pertinent to a bad sensor problem than to a problem inside the PCB or blue flexi overlay: 


"Early K-bike Fuel Light Fix

By Jim Solberg
September 2002
K-Tech Page Maintainer's Note: This will only work for early K-series bikes. Certainly those with the amber 7l light and the red 4l light, later ones up to the point where the analog sender was installed.

Purchase two 1 K OHM potentiometers from Radio Shack, #271-342, for $1.49 each. Splice one into the brown/white (4 liter) wire and the other one into the brown/black (7 liter) wire, where the wires go into the tank.

Measure 4 liters of fuel into an empty tank. Adjust the potentiometer for the red light so it comes on at the 4 liter content in the tank.

Obviously, the other potentiometer should be set so that the yellow light comes on at the 7 liter level. Of course, you could be creative and set them to come on at any level you desire.

Rather than empty the tank, I emptied almost all of it, then ran the bike until it ran out of gas, so I would have a true indication of liters remaining of useable capacity.

You can get as fancy or simple as you want with the installation. I mounted the pots in a small plastic box, with the adjustment screws accessible through two small holes drilled in the box. I also mounted a small switch through the box and wired it to be able to disconnect everything from the fuel lights just in case the fix didn't work. I spliced in enough wire to be able to mount the box to a frame member just behind the right side cover. I filled the box with silicone, completely covering the pots and switch, as protection from the elements and vibration.

This fix has worked flawlessly for sixteen years."

Or do you think this would be a workaround for my problem?

Another possibility that occurred to me: people have said that the fuel lights won't come on in "test" mode with the ignition switch on but the bike not running, and fuel in the tank.  But I'm assuming that the 4L light should come on when the sensor is hanging out of the empty tank with the ignition on, even though the bike obviously is not running. 

Don't know if anyone can confirm this on a working bike: when the fuel is low and you turn the ignition on (position 2), does the low fuel lamp come on before you start the bike?

Thanks.

  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline rbm

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2015, 06:15:20 PM »
The workaround will probably not fix your problem.

The 4L light should work whether the engine is running or not, but the ignition switch has to be ON (i.e. not in the park or OFF  positions). Someone who owns a pre-86 bike should be able to confirm this.

Hooking up the sender and powering up the instrument cluster should cause the light to come on.  It's exactly like the sender was inside the tank and the fuel level dropped below 4L.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2015, 07:40:05 PM »
Agreed. Thanks.
  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2015, 11:44:33 AM »
Hello all,

I want to thank everyone who took the time to help me with this problem, especially Inge, and most especially Rbm.  I learned a lot during the process, even though I still haven't solved the problem.

 I'll probably try to disassemble the circuit boards a bit more at some point in the future to see if I can find any broken connections on the back side, since it seems like we've narrowed down the likely causes to a fault either in the fuel warning pcb or the blue plastic flexi overlay.  If someone has a test for the pcb board itself that could narrow the possibilities further, that would be great.

In the meantime, I've posted a request on the parts forum in case anyone has a fuel warning pcb or blue plastic overlay assembly for a 1985 K100 RS, or a little later one that is compatible.  My speedo, tach, and most of the other instruments are working fine(or at least were before I started taking everything apart!) so I don't really need a whole cluster, but if anyone has working spares, or even these components that are questionable, but the price is low enough for me to try to make work, please let me know.

Thanks again for everyone's help, and I'll let you know if I come up with anything new.

Cheers.

  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline rogan

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2015, 06:20:02 PM »
Just thought I'd post an update.  I took apart and reassembled the cluster a couple more times, and after the last time, I was able to get the 4L lamp to light up with the gas tank drained and the sensor hanging out.  Don't know what changed or if it will stay working after I finish cleaning out the tank and pump screen, replacing the fuel filter, and reinstalling the fuel pump (which I'm having some trouble doing, and have posted for some advice).

Anyway, it's progress at least, and I'll keep my fingers crossed that once I get everything back together that the 4L lamp will still be working.

Thanks again to everyone.
  • Minnesota
  • 1985 K100RS

Offline petermarek

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #36 on: July 26, 2015, 10:05:02 PM »
Folks. I have just finished re-furbishing a 1985 K100 RT. BEFORE I tore the bike down and built it back up (it sat for ~15 years under a car port) the Clock worked....Now it doesn't. Everything else does work although the Gear indicator LCD is "bleeding" now. I suspect 15 years of freezing/thawing caused that.

Also the left turn signal has just started intermittently working. The right signal works reliably.

Any sage advice on the Clock and the turn signal?  Is the turn signal relay partitioned for left and right? Can only 1 signal go bad?

The clock would be just nice to have....

Thanks in advance!  :bmwsmile
  • Maryland, USA
  • 1985 K100RT
I ride a K 100 RT - say good bye to leg hair after 100 miles!

Offline rbm

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2015, 02:36:50 AM »
Inside the relay, there is a complex electronic circuit; it's not a simple relay.  If the left signal is intermittent, the cause is a dirty left switch cluster.  Your symptoms are probably that the signal is hard to get going but cancels promptly.There are threads on how to disassemble and clean the switch cluster. Or read this PDF writeup.  Be very careful not to loose the tiny springs inside.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline petermarek

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2015, 09:25:40 AM »
You are correct, Once the signal does start working, the cancel (manual and auto) works fine.

I'll start the dis-assembly and have the dielectric grease handy.

Your advice also makes sense as during the breakdown/rebuild process I came across small (dead) mud wasp nests throughout the bike. That's in addition to the mouse nest on top of the block beneath the Air filter.

Now I just need to learn German to fully understand the PDF...but the pictures help!  :2thumbup:

Thanks
  • Maryland, USA
  • 1985 K100RT
I ride a K 100 RT - say good bye to leg hair after 100 miles!

Offline 84K100RT

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Re: 1985 K100 RT Instrument Cluster Removal
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2015, 06:06:24 PM »
Just enquiring as to how the cluster replacement worked out.

I have an 84K100RT and am aware of the different clusters as they changed during 1985 [old ones have bolt down gas tank and seat handles in the seat] along with a lot of other changes like fuel tank electrical connections. I got one locally that is same year and has the 4/7l warning lights. I have an issue with the speedo and while I know it can be repaired I don't want to be off road as the Ks don't run without the cluster in place.

The 'new' one is in great condition but I am curious as to how difficult is it to fit?
  • Ireland
  • 92K100LT 84K100RT

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