Is it worth fixing the ABS?

[bizzaro]

I did not read the whole thread, so pardon me if I am being redundent. Did you test it yourself?  I would not go by what P O tells you. It is really simple to clear the faults if that is all it needs. And testing for what code is is easy peasy with an analog multi volt meter.  Have you done either of these things? It is in the Technical Library. Make sure you have a strong battery and all your grounds are solid.

[duckhawk]

My ABS on the 95 K75 is in flashing trouble mode.

It still worked the other day when I put the binders on pretty strong.
I am contemplating the reset diagnostics this fall when things slow down for me. I may remove it.

I'd like someone to tell me how ABS can help me on a wet curve at speed? On a straight trajectory, I get how great they work.

[Laitch]

I'd like someone to tell me how ABS can help me on a wet curve at speed? On a straight trajectory, I get how great they work.

Checking your line and gauging your speed entering is what will help you on a wet curve. After misjudging speed or conditions in a wet curve, ABS might shorten stopping distance if you've managed to stand up the bike, straighten your line and are headed off the road into the woods or a cliff, but sometimes nothing will save your bacon. That's part of the fun.

[beemerphile]

but sometimes nothing will save your bacon. That's part of the fun.

If it can't kill you it's not a sport, it's a hobby.

The ABS1 on my 93RS reacts so slowly, that I have decided I am better off without it.  After 40 years on BMW's, I think that I can check and release faster than ABS1 does.  Now the ABS on my 2013 GS is a different story.

[K1300S]

I'd like someone to tell me how ABS can help me on a wet curve at speed? On a straight trajectory, I get how great they work.

same way as in a straight line, only better.  by preventing wheels from locking, it allows you to steer and brake.

and yes, despite the fact that ABS1 is relatively primitive, it still works faster than the typical rider can modulate brakes (no matter how good the rider thinks they are).

[beemerphile]

and yes, despite the fact that ABS1 is relatively primitive, it still works faster than the typical rider can modulate brakes (no matter how good the rider thinks they are).

Methinks your opinion of the "typical rider" is masquerading as a fact about all riders.  ABS1 is EXTREMELY primitive (i.e. slow).  I cannot outperform the ABS on my 2013 GS, but I can markedly outperform the ABS1 on my K11RS, so it is destined for the dustbin.  You are, of course, free to disbelieve and disagree.

[Laitch]

same way as in a straight line, only better. 

I think having either ABS system could be helpful but there are exceptions.

Here's one condition where it might be better if ABS could be disconnected. :hehehe Freshly graded rural Class 3 roads with 6% grades or steeper are another.  Having the appropriate bike for the terrain might help too but sometimes you've got to work with what you've got. The skill and judgement of the rider will rule regardless—with an accommodation to gravity, of course.

[bizzaro]

Man that video is scary! :mbird I still am amazed every time I watch it that he stayed upright and on the bike! :nono ABS not the best for dirt roads.

[TrueAce]

Really.........all this over ABS? Motorcycles have been successfully ridden for a long time without some electronic brake over-ride. The early initiatives to market fuel injection, ABS, and other technology was promoted because Japanese bikes were faster, more model variety, and less expensive. That doesn't mean a 20-25 year old ABS is a sacrosanct safety technology! That's rubbish.........keep it as long as it works, take it off when it fails! Good Grief, Charlie Brown! This is too much about too little! :musicboohoo:

[K1300S]

Methinks your opinion of the "typical rider" is masquerading as a fact about all riders.  ABS1 is EXTREMELY primitive (i.e. slow).  I cannot outperform the ABS on my 2013 GS, but I can markedly outperform the ABS1 on my K11RS, so it is destined for the dustbin.  You are, of course, free to disbelieve and disagree.

no, i did not say all riders.  i said typical.  there is a small percentage that can actually do better than a first gen system.  how many riders actually practice repeated threshold braking level stops....all the time?  ya gotta to that to be able to use that skill instinctively in an emergency.

i teach high performance and competition driving in cars.  100% of the students THINK they are really good drivers immediately. 1% actually are.   none of them can outperform the abs in even 80's vintage bmw's.   

in racing conditions, i know of zero race car drivers that would disable the abs because they think they can do better.  not even the really good drivers. I don't race with abs because the rules i race under do not allow it.  i would reinstall abs immediately if i could, even an early system.  abs is an advantage.  period. 

to Laitch's point....in REALLY slippery conditions (like loose sand and snow/ice)  abs does not work well.  why?  there is so little traction that the tire won't start rolling once stopped.   best option in those conditions is to actually lock and hold the wheel locked.   in the dry or on a wet road, abs of any generation is an advantage.

my point is that unless you ARE really good, not just THINK you are good, it is best to keep and fix any abs system if you want to maximize your braking performance.

[K1300S]

Motorcycles have been successfully ridden for a long time without some electronic brake over-ride.

LOL!  by that logic we should all still be using chisels and stone as writing implements because it worked successfully before....  time and technology have moved on.  can you still ride a bike without abs?  of course!  is it the best solution available?  no.

[TrueAce]

OK, Mlytle, I hear you on big bikes on the highway being advantaged with ABS, BUT, there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider. That means ABS is a marketable system, but definitely no essential. I have had ABS and non-ABS bikes over the years, even when BMW gave the option, so I respect modern technology. But if my 25-30 year old K's lose ABS functionality, I don't think spending money on old technology rebuild is worth the expense. Remove the ABS, and keep riding.

[beemerphile]

i teach high performance and competition driving in cars.

Must not translate to motorcycles then.  I won't be taking riding advice from someone who counsels that ABS allows the rider to brake to the point of ABS intervention while turning.  ABS, especially the older variants, is not a silver bullet that suspends the laws of physics.  Laitch gave the proper counsel - brake, then turn.  Otherwise your remaining seconds might be better spent preparing your heart for God.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/2013/october/oct0913-new-cornering-abs/

[Laitch]

Laitch gave the proper counsel - brake, then turn.

Racers operate in a different world though.

In that world they manipulate the laws of physics that punish the rest of us. They can brake right into the apex of a corner then throttle through it. I could learn to do that but I'd need to increase my premium in Medicare Part C because it takes me longer to heal and I'd rather spend the money on riding, and chainsaw parts.

[Laitch]

KTM had to come up with something to counter their huge marketing blunder when they rejected sponsorship of the Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman Long Way 'Round project—leaving BMW to cash in on it.  This is a good try anyway. :giggles

[bikesnbones]

there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider.

Is that why traction control has become standard fitment on race bikes
 :hehehe

[TrueAce]

Traction control is for wheel spin/slip,not the same as anti-lock brakes.

[bikesnbones]

Traction control is for wheel spin/slip,not the same as anti-lock brakes.

WOW
REALLY YOU DON'T SAY
 :clap:
Fact is, it is still a rider aid, designed to cut in when the rider get's it wrong.
JUST LIKE ABS.
Same principle

[Laitch]

BUT, there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider.

Is that why traction control has become standard fitment on race bikes

You're both right—sort of! See here and this June 2014 article extract from Cycle World with Brembo engineer, Lorenzo Bortolozzo:
CW: In 2016, ABS will be obligatory on all bikes sold in the European market. ABS is prohibited in Formula 1 and MotoGP. What is your opinion of ABS in racing?
L.B.: ABS is perfect for the street rider, but in racing, it should be the rider who controls. Probably ABS would be safer, but racing is also a test of the rider, and so for the show, I don’t think ABS would be good.

Time for a group hug and selfies all around!

[bikesnbones]

Sorry, but it's just a bit silly to declare that abs has no relevance because racing bikes don't use it.
On a race track, everything is traveling in the same direction, and racers don't have to worry about Granny Smith pulling out of a side road across their path with inches to spare.

[Laitch]

. . . racers don't have to worry about Granny Smith pulling out of a side road across their path with inches to spare.

She does make good apples though.

[beemerphile]

Sorry, but it's just a bit silly to declare that abs has no relevance because racing bikes don't use it.
On a race track, everything is traveling in the same direction, and racers don't have to worry about Granny Smith pulling out of a side road across their path with inches to spare.

You are getting yourself wrapped around the axle.  He never said it wasn't relevant.  He said it was not essential.  If it was, then all us older riders would already have succumbed to Granny Smith, which we haven't.  It is not essential - especially the older low performance adaptations of it. 

[Laitch]

If that pill is too large, chop it up and add it to a smoothie in the Vita-Mix.

[TrueAce]

The thread began as a question of whether to repair non-functioning ABS, particularly Gen1, and I stated my view that you can ride without ABS instead of the expensive repair of older technology. You have jumped in with both feet talking about racing applications of technology. I never stated "no relevance". Maybe you could start a new thread to talk about racing technology applications. Maybe you should chill.

[bikesnbones]

You have jumped in with both feet talking about racing applications of technology.

WTF

there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider.

So we see it was actually you who bought racing technology into the discussion.