Author Topic: Spline lube again, pictures (Read 39720 times)

PiotrK100 · « **on:** December 19, 2014, 03:30:45 PM »

Just take final drive appart and what I see is rosted splin, which is a nightmare view on a first moment. The closest look shows that is not so bad but, want some of you to take a look at the pictures to tell me what you think. Also oil wet areas on the inside drive body worries me because that can be zimmering, but also former grease that been used for splin lubricating. Last thing, the best grease for lubriating, what you think about MoS2?

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2014, 04:06:55 PM »

Looks fine to me. Clean, lube, ride.

Motorhobo · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2014, 04:26:46 PM »

FD looks good -- DS looks less good but like F14CRAZY said...good to go.

bocutter Ed · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2014, 07:25:43 PM »

That "rust" is dried out grease. Zimmering is German for seal, IIRC.

Snowman · « **Reply #4 on:** December 19, 2014, 09:31:52 PM »

Honda Moly assembly lube gets a lot of thumbs up.

Bokobob · « **Reply #5 on:** December 20, 2014, 03:25:20 PM »

plus one on Honda Moly Lube...it is 60% molybdenum.

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #6 on:** December 20, 2014, 08:07:43 PM »

Dont have long term experience with it but I also used Honda Moly 60

orforester · « **Reply #7 on:** December 20, 2014, 09:26:15 PM »

Honda Moly 60 ++++

mjydrafter · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2014, 09:06:49 AM »

I will be the voice of dissension, I have found Honda Moly 60 to be a little thin in the body. I don't know if it's just my batch or if it usually the same consistency. My experience is anecdotal, but the first clutch spline lube I did with HM60. The bike worked fine for a while, but then started shifting harder and harder. I opened it up again and the splines were pretty dry. This time I used Guard dog Moly, and it's been fine ever since.

I prefer Guard dog moly. It's very tacky, sticky, and messy.

Being from Poland however, the GD will have to be ordered, whereas you probably have a Honda dealer around.

When I was doing research there was another possibility, but it was really expensive and harder to get than the Guard dog.

The GD was about 2x what the HM60 was, price wise, but well worth it in my opinion. Their little tub should eb a lifetime supply too. :yes

johnny · « **Reply #9 on:** December 21, 2014, 09:38:14 AM »

i have used the honda moly... the guard dog moly... the wurth moly and cocktails of each... all were good on the next peek...

i thinks the key to antispline wear is moly it up... then its about supernatural throttle and brake control... easy on the throttle... easy off the throttle... easy on the rear braking...

j o

PiotrK100 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 22, 2014, 04:13:20 PM »

Well, hard to judge. I'm looking for the best molibdenium grease with the highest MoS2 contence. But also I'm taking under considertion another greases: graphite or ceramic.
http://www.autoxen.pl/xenum/produkty/aerozole/c1200_500ml

http://www.autoxen.pl/xenum/produkty/smary/mox-g_2

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #11 on:** December 22, 2014, 04:51:56 PM »

All this debate over super special greases yet no automotive clutch has ever needed lube nor had any significant wear during its service life

Gio · « **Reply #12 on:** December 22, 2014, 06:41:43 PM »

Well - there seems to be good evidence that the K bikes require some attention in this area (design fault or otherwise - we all have our issues, right?) - and I know from many years first-hand experience with MG shaft drive that Moly is a good thing ... so why not?

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #13 on:** December 22, 2014, 09:59:47 PM »

I understand the need for lubing the splines on K's, and I deal with it, but I still think it's dumb that it's an issue at all

PiotrK100 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2014, 04:00:47 AM »

This is not an issue at all. You can grease it with ordinairy lithum grease and all will be fine, but why not use something more sophisticated when new technology gives that opportunity? :yes
Also, ths place is to share doubts, even stupid or replaced tozen of times, briks change owners and all of us need answers. :dunno

Gio · « **Reply #15 on:** December 23, 2014, 08:18:31 AM »

I agree Piotr - but F14 does have a point ... and whilst I'm not aware of any design flaws re the clutch per se (open to correction on that as have had personal experience with the clutch - yet), I did read an interesting critique somewhere which argued that the final drive spline design could have been better had BMW gone with an oil-bath (as is the case with many other shaft driven bikes incl other BMW models - he argued) rather than the dry (ie grease only) design that we have ie frequent spline lube (+/- moly) required.

Speaking for myself - this design "quirk" is no different than quirks on other bikes (don't even get me started on Italian elecrtics!) as they all have them - but the important thing is that this is by very far outweighed by many of the other features that make the K an awesome bike - even by todays standards in my opinion. That's why they have such a following - preaching to the converted here!

And what would life be like without a few quirks to keep it interesting eh?

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #16 on:** December 23, 2014, 02:01:19 PM »

Well consider that the BMW R and K (flying brick era) bikes have a dry clutch setup not unlike one used in automotive applications, but when was the last time you thought of pulling the trans in your (insert car or truck here) to lube the clutch splines? A guy on another forum made the point that even garbage Lada's in Eastern Europe dont have clutch spline issues. My Subaru (bought new) had around 162k miles when the trans had to be pulled due to a bad throwout bearing and those splines still looked good, and it isnt like I pulled the trans every year to clean and grease the splines. Did BMW used soft metal? Is it because the trans isn't syncronized? Is it a misalignment of the trans and engine? (seems later model R's had that problem).

I love my K and understand the need to grease the splines but I still dont get why the splines need this religious greasing

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #17 on:** December 23, 2014, 07:15:49 PM »

Having only ridden a brick for a year now, I might not be as knowledgeable as many others here, so what I say might need a few grains of salt. My understanding was that spline lube was needed on the driveshaft to prevent spline damage. On the clutch the primary purpose of the lube was to facilitate smoother disengagement and shifting, especially shifting down into second and first.

This makes sense to me, the clutch in my automobile is disengaged with my leg so the force available for disengagement is much higher than what I can muster in the fingers of my left hand. I suspect that the design of the K bike clutch required less spring tension and lever throw than what is used in an automobile. By lubing the splines clutch action is more positive in both directions; not only is disengage more positive, but I suspect that engage is as well with less slipping and subsequent clutch wear.

An afternoon of fussing with the clutch splines every two years isn't that big a deal to me.

TimTyler · « **Reply #18 on:** December 23, 2014, 07:26:47 PM »

> An afternoon of fussing with the clutch splines every two years isn't that big a deal to me.

A full spline lube takes roughly six hours for a very experienced mechanic in a workspace designed to disassemble and support the K bike.

A first-time spline-luber working in their car garage should budget a whole weekend.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #19 on:** December 23, 2014, 09:59:30 PM »

Tim, having done a couple clutch spline lubes so far and I agree with you. I guess it wasn't clear that doing the clutch along with a full drive shaft spline and swing arm lube adds about 2 hours to the job. I don't do the full transmission removal, but rather put in a pair of 8mm X 100mm headless bolts and slide the transmission back a couple inches so I can get a parts cleaning brush in there with the lube.

Even going for a transmission pull to tighten the grub screw I have been able to get in and out of a K75RT w/ABS in about 8 hours. And that was working in a driveway with no special tools. I will admit I've been wrenching for nearly 50 years, but even a relative novice should be able to do all the splines on a monolever bike in one day.

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #20 on:** December 24, 2014, 09:43:49 AM »

I've done it enough times on my bike that I can get the trans off in an hour and a half (I timed it).

I have read of many cases where clutch splines were lubed because shifting was difficult but I had to replace my disc because the splines in its hub were very worn. I'll find a photo I took of them later. Trans splines were still good, 3.5-4 out of 5 I'd say.

Also, I feel that its impossible to put too much. Grease will not fly off onto the clutch disc. Some Molly 60 is showing up around the bell housing (not just on the bottom but all around).

TimTyler · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2014, 11:13:55 AM »

Quote from: F14CRAZY on December 24, 2014, 09:43:49 AM

I've done it enough times on my bike that I can get the trans off in an hour and a half (I timed it).

That's about how long it takes me too now that I've done it five or six times. It still takes me a while to reassemble since I'm cleaning, lubing, inspecting parts and double-checking torque values, etc.

The first time it took me a few days since I was running out to the store for tools and chemicals, and back and forth to the computer to consult motobrick.com

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2014, 12:18:20 PM »

F14CRAZY · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2014, 12:19:43 PM »

I guess it beats having to do things like engine rebuilds every 60 miles on a harley, or being stranded every other time you take out an old British bike

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #24 on:** December 24, 2014, 10:42:08 PM »

Don't think of it as maintenance. Think foreplay.

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Author Topic: Spline lube again, pictures (Read 39720 times)