'95 K75 - won't stop running- now dead

[GHGoodwin]

As an introduction I do not own this bike.  I have owned mostly airheads in the past including my last a R1200R.  I now own several URALS because last set of artificial joints left me with an unreliable posting leg.  Am a competent mechanic though.  The '95 K75 is headed to my garage because the owner (along with a bunch of other guys I know) won't use the local dealer for service.  Bike has 85,000mis.   

Here's the story I have so far.  Bike started not turning off, as in kept running, when turned off.  IMHO - owner did a less than intelligent thing and let it pass because he could clutch stall it.  After last incident "electrical smoke and smell" came from somewhere under tank.  Now she won't either start or turn over. 

Surgery will not start until manuals have been secured but I can use some ideas.

THNX in advance

Hal

[johnny]

greetings ghgoodwin...

welcome to motobrick.com...

generally when a motobrick runs and wont shut off its because the starter relay contacts are welded together due to low battery... they are typically easy to free up with a hard whack on the relay... butts smoke... that donts sound good...

j o

[Inge K.]

Then the question is it won't turn off because the starter keeps running when the rpms get low enough,
or it keeps running because you can't cut the power.

When the later...all electrics stays on opposite to the first.
When the later, I would first checked the ignition switch connector and the related wiring....
this version can also produce some smoke signals.....the Connector is under the tank.

red wire input, green wire output, gray and gray/blue park/tail light.

[kioolt]

greetings ghgoodwin...

welcome to motobrick.com...

generally when a motobrick runs and wont shut off its because the starter relay contacts are welded together due to low battery... they are typically easy to free up with a hard whack on the relay... butts smoke... that donts sound good...

j o

I believe if you read more carefully you will see that the owner can clutch stall the bike.  That to me says that the engine won't turn off, not the starter.

[kioolt]

With your description of the smoke and smell from under the tank I would fist remove the tank to find the source.  You may find some burn't and/or shorted together wires that can be repaired to solve all of the problems.

[GHGoodwin]

You guys are great.  MANY THNX for input so far.  Your ideas are going on a checklist for the surgery.

I'll keep everyone posted on the results along with some photos as soon as it arrives.  Should be next week.  Owner is retired as am I. 

Pre-emptive battery replacement a good idea?  Phone notes from talking with owner shows 4 yrs old.   

[johnny]

f all you a-holes...

i know more abouts motobricks than f-ing canadicans and the mayor of fredrikstad and all their cronies...

im gonna have a slice of pumpkinweed pie now and give it some more thought after a few hefeweedenwizens...

j o

[Inge K.]

  :beer:  :getwell:

[Motorhobo]

4 yr old battery = replace battery.

[GHGoodwin]

f all you a-holes...

i know more abouts motobricks than f-ing canadicans and the mayor of fredrikstad and all their cronies...

im gonna have a slice of pumpkinweed pie now and give it some more thought after a few hefeweedenwizens...

j o

A short circuit perhaps?

[TimTyler]

Starter relay got stuck, and letting it run killed the battery and probably the starter.

Replace the battery, fix or replace the starter relay, and maybe rebuild the starter. http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/category-s/815.htm

[kioolt]

Bike started not turning off, as in kept running, when turned off.  IMHO - owner did a less than intelligent thing and let it pass because he could clutch stall it.

I think the big question here is what does not turning off mean.  Does it mean the starter is not turning off when turned off but the ignition and fuel injection is or that nothing is turning off?  In first gear I believe that the clutch would not completely stall the starter motor with a good battery.

[Larmol7]

88 k75s:  When leaving work tonite it started fine.  Stopped at the store.  When I started it up again the lights, and turn signlas  would not work.. Turned off ignition, engine would turn off but starter kept turning. Also the fan would not turn off.  had to disconnect the ground on battery to get it to stop.

Any help please, thanks, Larry

[Chaos]

THNX in advance

Hal

Greetings Hal, you should stick to Urals!  Damn krauts overcomplicate electronics.  Heading out to Heindl's tomorrow for new brake pads, hopefully won't get seduced by a new Ct.  Good luck with that K, got mine new in 86 and the damn thing has about 190,000 miles on it now.  Joel

[gpcrane]

Hi Larry, it's a very late reply I know.  I am sure you are good to go by now but I wanted to add this for people who may be doing a search on this problem.

I have an intermittent starter relay that stays on, so even if I turn off with the key, the bike keeps running.  The problem you noticed with the lights is because when the starter relay is turned on, the load shedding relay turns off, killing the lights etc.  Now when I start my bike I always make sure the lights are on, if not I give a light tap to the relay box under the gas tank on the rear right corner where the starter relay is and watch for the light to turn on.

Happy riding. 

[DrNocky]

Eight years after this thread started the information in it is exactly what I needed. Thank you K people.
I took my K75 out for a spin today. Started no problem as usual. I stopped to do a small job and when I tried to start it again, it wouldn’t. The starter motor was spinning but no catch. After a few tries it caught and off I went. On the way home the indicators started acting up, the left one turned on the right hand light on the lunchbox, and the right one wouldn’t work. When I got home the engine wouldn’t turn off either with the key or the kill switch. Eventually I had to stall it with the clutch to turn it off. When I got off the bike smoke started pouring out from underneath the seat. I moved the bike away from the house in case it went up in flames, which thankfully it didn’t. Has anyone else had electrical problems with their K, and do you have any guidance as to how to get this sorted please?

[Scott_]

1st off, I'd remove the seat, fuel tank, and disconnect the battery.
Then I'd start looking for burned wiring.

[daveson]

I'm thinking your starter relay was stuck on, so the starter motor kept turning the engine over. I've had that problem, but disconnected the battery lead before wiring melted.

I'm assuming you used the side stand,  not the centre stand.

Stalling it would make the Amps even higher. I'll guess the wiring from battery to relay is damaged, or relay to starter. Replace the damaged wiring.

A jammed starter relay has happened to a lot of people. A battery isolator switch is a good idea for a brick. I disconnected the battery earth strap from the gearbox and bolted an isolator switch to it, then bolted the switch to where the lead was bolted to the transmission.

[flypig]

"I disconnected the battery earth strap from the gearbox and bolted an isolator switch to it, then bolted the switch to where the lead was bolted to the transmission. "

Daveson, I would love to see install photo and a  RL of your isolator switch. i've replaced 2 relays and expect this to continue and have been looking for an appropriate switch. Thought about wiring some rocker to the dashboard but gave up.

[daveson]

Dunno what RL means.

In the "Project classic motobricks" section is a thread called "Quick fix, circuit breaker, save your brick from burning" There is a photo of it (page 2 #42) and some others. It's a quick easy modification. Got it at the local hardware store, about six dollars from memory.

There is also a thread here how to delete the starter relay. I had a few thoughts about the cause, other than the usual flat battery, it just escapes me at the moment.

It sounds like you need to clean the sprag clutch if your symptoms are like DrKnocky's. Normally the starter relay should only be in use for about one second. Because of the longer time and multiple attempts the contacts in the relay would get hotter than they're designed to, that might be why they stuck closed. It also sounds like the relay and starter motor were on the whole time of that last trip, that would put a lot of wear on the starter motor too.

There are threads here on how to clean the sprag clutch.

[daveson]

For some reason I can't put this photo on the previous post, the on-off knob is the green bit.

It might be worth trying to find out why this happens, if its still a problem with a known good battery. Maybe the power is enough to engage but not hold in, causing multiple on-off sparking on the relay contacts.


023.JPG (53.16 kB . 768x576 - viewed 766 times)