k 75s water in my tank and can't rectify it for awhile *UPDATE 9/13*

[ludwig]

Hi everyone,

Hoping I can get your 2 cents on how best to handle my situation with my fuel tank /system
(94 k75s  29000 mi)
The bike is new to me and I’ve been gleaning all the info I can from this forum and the interweb.

Recently completed a week long tour of about 1000 miles. Ran mostly fine and averaged about  44 mpg. Didn’t have the balls to try and take it past about the 180 mile range on a fill up, as I was traveling alone.

Went through some rain storms, but especially the last part of my trip the bike was exposed to HEAVY rain and being parked for hours on center stand in continuous downpour w/o the tank bag on.
After this heavy rain the engine was a little harder to get going than it had been.
When I got close to the 160-180 mile mark from my prev fillup it started to sputter like it was being fuel starved, but based on the mileage I had been getting, it didn’t seem logical that I was running out of gas, even tho that was the way it performed.

Made it to a station luckily w/o having to push, but when I opened the filler there was water above the flap that slowly started to drain back into the tank before I could get a rag or towel to sop it up.
Obviously water is getting past the cap, and I don’t know how long it’s been doing so, but I do have confirmation from the PO that the fuel pump, filters and injectors were replaced this last april by a reputable kbike mechanic along with the gas cap main seal.
The fill up took 4 gallons, which means it was not empty when the sputtering started.
After the fill up the sputtering stopped and I continued on to my next stop on my way home w/o incident and planned on addressing this on my return.

Here’s the thing… before I could return I busted my fibula  :falldown: (which means crutches for the next 4-6 weeks…fug!) and had to leave the bike at a friend’s place way out in the country where it will be parked for about 7weeks before I can get back to it. (gas cap is covered with plastic for now so no more agua getting in for the time being)

Oh yea, and fwiw my last tanks mpg was about 41, lowest of the trip.

I’d really like to know from you experts
a)   what’s the best additive for me to ask my friend to drop in the tank while it’s parked?
b)   Does anyone know how fast corrosion begins and if I should be worried that it’s gonna be necessary for this tank to be gone thru…again? or will the additive be sufficient? I may be wrong but I’m assuming there is a substantial amount of water in there if the bike started acting fuel starved at the 4 gal consumed mark??


Thanks a bunch for any feedback or advice…I’m stuck on my ass with plenty of time to worry about it… :musicboohoo:

ludwig

[johnny]

greetings...

id take the gas cap assembly off... take the side panels off... take the seat off... disconnect the under tank electrical connector... pull the tank back... disconnect the 2 fuel hoses... drain it... wipe it out with something lint free like an old t shert... flush it with some no corn ethyl... drain it... replace the fuel filter... fill it to the top with no corn ethyl and be done with it...

if its gonna sit there for 7 weeks i would put it on a deltran battery tender jr...

j o

[Elipten]

Agree that is the proper course of treatment.

[ludwig]

thanks for the reply guys!
good info.
was planning on doing just that, or taking straight to the shop as soon as i can get back in the saddle....just wish the water didn't have to sit in the tank until i can get off my crutches.

[Motorhobo]

Here's a question I should know the answer to but don't. There are floats that prevent the tank from draining through the main hose connections. How to get the fuel past those floats so it can gravity-drain?

Last time I used a hand pump to suck it out from above and too many rags to sop up the rest. That way sucks. I just want gravity to do its job without me having to turn the tank upside down and shake the gas all over the paint job.

[Inge K.]

Floats? The output spigot is connected to the filter and pump.....the return ends up in the top inside the tank.

[ackgs]

Ludwig - Johnny's solution is the way to go IMO. Is there anyway you can get the contaminated fuel out now? Is there is ethanol in the fuel? If so you don't want to let it sit for almost two months. I don't know how long it has to sit for the water to eat through the tank but if you have ethanol fuel it may well separate and you will have a very gummy mess. Just my two cents but get that crap out ASAP. Startron (SP?) might prevent separation for the seven weeks but if it were mine I would want it out. I winterize my boats with Startron or Sta-bil Marine formula as we have Gov. mandated 10% ethanol. Raises hell with outboards, does not seem to phase my I/O at all.

Motorhobo - My tank does not have any float system except the fuel level arm, it is just as Inge K. described. A few weeks back I replaced my fuel tank my fuel pump seized up a hundred miles later, of course I had just filled the tank a few miles earlier because everything had been functioning correctly. Anyway to make it easier to work on the pump I drained the tank with a syphon from an old Kerosun heater I had in the garage. It was originally for transferring kerosene from a storage container to the heater. It worked like a champ, a very painless way to accomplish emptying the tank. Much easier than removing the tank and dumping it. If you have to take the tank off to rinse it out and tip it up side down to empty out crud it is still a good way to get most of the fuel out before removing the tank. After I had most of the fuel out I removed the fuel pump and syphoned the out the rest from the pump well.

[Motorhobo]

Of course it is. Pardon my brain turd there...I was thinking since there are two holes at the low point of the tank there must be some way to use them to get the fuel out. I couldn't get the siphon hose low enough and there was a lot of fuel left in there. Even after toweling out as much as I could reach, I think there was still some left which I assume is where all the water contamination would accumulate since water sinks in gas.

If you pull the plugs and run the starter, won't the fuel pump push fuel out the outlet hose until the tank is dryer than you could get it with a siphon hose? I'd rather take 2 minutes to pull the plugs than waste an armful of perfectly good rags.

[552255]

...attach siphon hose to a stick, long screwdriver (zip ties, duct tape) to get it down into the last bit of fluid (take off gas cap-frame (4-screws) for sight and access)  Bike on kickstand may help...or take off tank and turn upside down?  re-fill with some good gas, start bike??? 

[Motorhobo]

...attach siphon hose to a stick, long screwdriver (zip ties, duct tape) to get it down into the last bit of fluid (take off gas cap-frame (4-screws) for sight and access)  Bike on kickstand may help...or take off tank and turn upside down?  re-fill with some good gas, start bike???

Yes...I turned it upside down and tried to shake it out -- did all that stuff. Was hoping there was a less messy way but if no one is recommending running the fuel pump as described above the. I guess there's not.

[ackgs]

As my bike was a non runner with a leaky tank when I got it I have had to empty the tank several times. At one point I was thinking about disconnecting the fuel lines from the rail and using the pump to empty the tank. After I thought about it a little longer I decided I did not want ANY crap going through my new pump or any functioning pump for that matter. Granted you do have filters but I did not need any more problems. Also had read warnings about running the pump with a low gas level as overheating and pump failure was possible. My solution though a bit ugly was to get as much fuel out as possible with the siphon and then mop it out. Good luck - are you just cleaning out the tank?

[ackgs]

Hey motorhobo on my way out the door but just had a thought. What if you siphon as much out as you can then remove the fuel pump - siphon again in the pump well and then use a cheap turkey baster to suck out the remaining fuel. If you have larger pieces gunk in there you could probably cut the end of the baster back to make a larger hole. If there crap remaining when the gas is gone add a bit more clean fuel and use the baster again, repeat until clean. Just a thought, I haven't tried it. Not sure if the baster would reach the bottom of the tank but the fuel tank fill when removed does give you quite a bit of room.

[Motorhobo]

Hey motorhobo on my way out the door but just had a thought. What if you siphon as much out as you can then remove the fuel pump - siphon again in the pump well and then use a cheap turkey baster to suck out the remaining fuel. If you have larger pieces gunk in there you could probably cut the end of the baster back to make a larger hole. If there crap remaining when the gas is gone add a bit more clean fuel and use the baster again, repeat until clean. Just a thought, I haven't tried it. Not sure if the baster would reach the bottom of the tank but the fuel tank fill when removed does give you quite a bit of room.

If that's the way it's gotta be, then so be it...I picked up a turkey blaster to transfer paint with recently so that's a good idea. I had to clean the tank out last year and did it again recently to paint the tank. I'll have to do it again with my second brick soon...so I'd like to have easiest process in place before I do it again.

Re: fuel pump, when the fuel runs dry you shut it off...no reason to run it empty. but if nobody else on the forum is doing that there's got to be a reason for it so I'll stick with the manual suck and swab method for now.

[ludwig]

again thanks all for the input...

ackgs
i'm in agreement with you that the water should be removed ASAP...thanks for the recommendation.

so with a little (lot) help from my friends i'm gonna try to take a trip back to the bike, crutches and all, and do the tank siphon, drain, and replace filter hopefully this weekend.
got a shaker siphon, fuel filter arriving wed and my friend luckily has extra gas cans to dump old fuel and renew with some fresh good stuff.
found a station online near my friend's place that sells corn-free.

will be able to leave a gallon or so ethynol free in there while it's parked.

btw, found a mahle kl145 on amazon...score! :clap:

will keep you posted

ludwig

[ludwig]

shit...just found out no corn free available...will need to add startron or some other. they sure don't make it easy.

[ackgs]

shit...just found out no corn free available...will need to add startron or some other. they sure don't make it easy.

 

I was going to reply that it would not hurt throw some Startron or Sta-bil in anyway - just because. If you use Sta-bil try get the marine formula it may no different than the normal stuff but what the heck. You are going all that way to do the work make sure you run the bike to get the stabilized fuel all through the system. Yeah you knew that sorry. Again I am used to using this stuff on boat winterization and any machine that does not get a lot of use in off season. I think it should be an OK method for the bike. I'm sure that to more experienced Brickers will step in and set us straight if they don't think it will work for a K. Or sure hope so anyway.

[ackgs]

Re: fuel pump, when the fuel runs dry you shut it off...no reason to run it empty. but if nobody else on the forum is doing that there's got to be a reason for it so I'll stick with the manual suck and swab method for now.

My R1100 pump would get noisy when the fuel got low so I am a little cautious and those darn pumps a pricey. I was thinking about it work today and even running the pump to empty the tank you would not get all the fuel. So you are back mopping or the turkey baster.

[ludwig]

siphoned the gas out today.
used the turkey baster method for the lowest portion of the tank. (worked pretty well, got almost all of it out)
the fuel that came out was pretty clean. (relief sigh)
aside from what appears to be some age related surface rust/corrosion on the bottom of the inside of the tank looks pretty clean and no gummy hoses.
only a little bit of water globule came out of the filter.
gonna top it off with fresh fuel and startron.

which makes me wonder why the engine started sputtering when it still had roughly a gallon left in the tank?
is it possible or even necessary i need to pull the sender??
hmmmm

[ackgs]

Glad you were able to get the fuel out. What are your concerns with the sender? You said it was raining when it began to sputter or before that anyway. Do you think maybe there was a slug of water in the bottom of the tank causing the rough running?  Have to see how it runs after you heal up. Maybe check the connector under the tank where the sender and the pump plug in. Did it start and run OK after you drained the tank and refueled? With any luck the bike will run like a champ when you get back on it.  :2thumbup:

[ludwig]

Glad you were able to get the fuel out. What are your concerns with the sender? You said it was raining when it began to sputter or before that anyway. Do you think maybe there was a slug of water in the bottom of the tank causing the rough running?  Have to see how it runs after you heal up. Maybe check the connector under the tank where the sender and the pump plug in. Did it start and run OK after you drained the tank and refueled? With any luck the bike will run like a champ when you get back on it.  :2thumbup:

the only reason why i suggested the sender is maybe there was a slug of water still in it?
the old fuel that came out was very clear except for what drained out of the filter, and even that was not too bad...maybe a pea or small grape size glob of water and some residual silt. i was really expecting to see a lot more junk or water because the sputtering started when i had a whole gallon left in the tank.
maybe the ethynol "absorbed" a bunch of the water?
i posted a few pics in a different thread showing the corrosion i found.
started and ran great in the driveway like a champ!

[K75RT Keith]

It doesn't take a lot of water to make a K run poorly.  A pea or small grape size slug of water can make most any gas engine run bad.

[ackgs]

Sounds like you are good to go. Checked out the other thread and I think Chaos has the right idea, clean it up and put some sort of coating on it. A good winter project. I did the "find a new tank thing" and now have get either the tank painted to match or repaint all the bodywork. I leaning toward the repaint everything route. That is my winter project. My tank was in tough shape and I was fortunate to find a new one in very good condition and now I am back on the road. Mismatched but back on the road. If you do a bit of preemptive maintenance you will avoid that entire dilemma.