Author Topic: K75 Gear change (Shift) return spring (Read 16465 times)

arthurf · « **on:** March 21, 2014, 06:10:07 PM »

Hi All,
First "real" post, and of course it is a problem!.
Went out to garage yesterday morning to get the K75RT ABS out for a run. As usual started first button, so I put it into gear ready for a start - all well so far!.
Unfortunately the gear lever stayed down - not supposed to do that!.
So bang went the run on the K75! - had to take out a Suzuki GT250X7!

After lunch I read the manuals and started to have a look at the bike. I still think it is just the return spring broken, but how do I actually get into the gearbox cover to check it and replace?. Do I really need to drop the engine/gearbox out of the frame (on the left side of the gearbox the cover appears to be bolted behind the frame)?. I am not equipped to drop out the engine etc.. and am left wondering what to do next?.
Polite (maybe humorous) suggestions accepted. Many thanks, Arthur

Motorhobo · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2014, 06:17:04 PM »

Ugh -- this'll keep you busy. I need some Ritalin just to get to the bottom of that thread.

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=2579.msg14599#msg14599

Van

Motorhobo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2014, 06:21:57 PM »

Oops -- ignore this. Haven't figured out how to delete a message I posted yet.

TimTyler · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2014, 06:44:53 PM »

Do you mean the shift lever that actuates with your left foot? Is your bike stuck in 1st gear? That would suck.

The only way to get into the gear box is to remove it from the bike.

Good opportunity to lube the clutch splines, tighten the grub screw in the transmission, and check the condition of your clutch disk. You might also pop a new O-ring in atthe rear main seal, or perhaps r+r the rear main seal too. All of that is an 8-hour job if you kind of know what you're doing.

arthurf · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2014, 06:16:52 PM »

Hi All,
Thanks for the replies.
Firstly to answer a couple of questions -
Yes it is the gear lever used by left foot to change gear; No the bike is not stuck in gear.

Looks like the engine and/or gearbox has to be dropped out of the frame to get access to the spring - I am still assuming that it is the return spring which is the problem!.
Much too big a job for me - limited knowledge, limited selection of suitable equipment to lower and lift the engine/gearbox. Need to look at options.
Thanks, Arthur

TimTyler · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:59:25 PM »

Quote from: arthurf on March 22, 2014, 06:16:52 PM

...limited knowledge, limited selection of suitable equipment to lower and lift the engine/gearbox.

All you'll need to drop the gearbox is this forum, a couple of saw horses, a screwdriver, couple of small wrenches and a ratchet set. The engine stays in the frame.

The first time for me took a weekend and I had not a clue.

Search the forum for "clutch spline lube" and you'll see pictures and procedure.

wmax351 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2014, 10:04:09 PM »

Quote from: TimTyler on March 22, 2014, 09:59:25 PM

Quote from: arthurf on March 22, 2014, 06:16:52 PM
...limited knowledge, limited selection of suitable equipment to lower and lift the engine/gearbox.

All you'll need to drop the gearbox is this forum, a couple of saw horses, a screwdriver, couple of small wrenches and a ratchet set. The engine stays in the frame.

The first time for me took a weekend and I had not a clue.

Search the forum for "clutch spline lube" and you'll see pictures and procedure.

Definitely a doable job. We'll help you through it if you get stuck. You don't need a lot of space or tools, and any tools you are missing can be had cheaply, and are vital shop tools to have anyhow.

arthurf · « **Reply #7 on:** March 23, 2014, 07:18:42 PM »

G'day Tim,
Your news on replacing the K75 Gear Shift makes it sound nota as bad I as thought. I am still a bit nervous about the idea and the process.
So following your suggestion of searching for "Clutch Spline Lube", I tried to do that and got a page full of messages which confused the issue - which one gives me the info and pictures needed, and how do I get to the message/file?. (Sorry but I am also new to the Forum side of things, and not making much headway in getting the info I need).
Equally is there a list of the gaskets, oil seals, O-rings required to do the job?.
Thanks, Arthur

TimTyler · « **Reply #8 on:** March 23, 2014, 07:32:06 PM »

Arthur,

Take your time to read through these. You don't have to memorize anything. There will not be a test :)

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5060.0

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=490.0

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=2976.0

http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/clutch-spline-lube1.shtml

Once you remove the gearbox, you can always bring that to a mechanic/dealer and have them fix the broken spring if you don't want to open it up yourself. They could also drop in new seals while they're in there, and tighten the grub screw if it's loose.

You don't need any gaskets, seals or O-rings to do the job. You will need fresh gearbox and rear drive fluid when you're all done. If you open up the gearbox yourself, you will need some sealant to put it back together. The drain and fill plugs on the gearbox and final drive require crush washers.

TimTyler · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2014, 07:52:56 PM »

The short description of the procedure is:

Put the bike on the center stand, immobilize the front wheel, and remove the rear wheel, shock, fender, rear caliper, final drive, foot pegs brackets and drive shaft. Oh, yeah, the battery, alternator and starter motor too. All can be done with hex keys and a screwdriver in about an hour or two. ABS adds a little pain-in-the-butt factor. The trickiest part is just remembering how it all goes back together.

Since you need to remove the center stand which is connected to the gearbox, the bike must be supported from the rear. I use a couple of saw horses and two 2x4's through the frame. Once supported, remove the center stand and carefully slide the gearbox off while supporting it on a dolly or skateboard or something.

Then clean, lube the splines and fix your spring.

Motorhobo · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2014, 08:40:34 PM »

First time I did it I got a bag of medium ziplock bags and labels, put all screws, bolts and small parts in the labelled bags. Took a pic of each part before removing. This is the third time I've done it and it took under 3 hours to get he tranny off

Just sayin...definitely doable. I had basically no prior moto wrenching experience.

Van

arthurf · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2014, 07:18:41 PM »

Tim et al,
Many thanks for taking the time to sort out my problems - with the bike and with the Forum navigation - it is very appreciated.
The good news is that I have looked at the videos of taking off the gearbox, and while it does not seem particularly difficult, there is a lot of stuff to take off. So I feel that I probably will do the repair myself (probably need to enlist some local assistance in parts).
The bad news is that I am flat out on a Honda CB550 to get running, a Suzuki GT250X7 to be serviced, and an Ariel Leader about half way through restoration. So it is likely to be a few months before I do the K75.
Again, thanks for the information, help and support - will keep in touch and let you all know how I go.
Thanks, Arthur

wmax351 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2014, 11:48:35 PM »

Quote from: arthurf on March 24, 2014, 07:18:41 PM

Tim et al,
Many thanks for taking the time to sort out my problems - with the bike and with the Forum navigation - it is very appreciated.
The good news is that I have looked at the videos of taking off the gearbox, and while it does not seem particularly difficult, there is a lot of stuff to take off. So I feel that I probably will do the repair myself (probably need to enlist some local assistance in parts).
The bad news is that I am flat out on a Honda CB550 to get running, a Suzuki GT250X7 to be serviced, and an Ariel Leader about half way through restoration. So it is likely to be a few months before I do the K75.
Again, thanks for the information, help and support - will keep in touch and let you all know how I go.
Thanks, Arthur

Glad to help.

I had a CB550 for a while, it was my first non "small" bike. I kind of wish I kept it, it was an excellent bike.

For a first time removal of the transmission, should only take a couple hours. Probably a top of 5. When I rebuilt my K75, I had the whole driveline out in an evening/night, which included the engine and fuel system.

Where are you located? If you get in a jam during your repair, a local motobricker could probably lend a hand. We can also point you to places to outsource work.

billday · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2014, 07:58:51 PM »

Quote from: TimTyler on March 23, 2014, 07:52:56 PM

Oh, yeah, the battery, alternator and starter motor too.

No need to remove the alternator (just its plastic cover). Nor the starter (just the two screws that fasten the starter motor to the top of the transmission).

arthurf · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2014, 01:11:57 AM »

G'day All,
I am almost ready to start planning the removal of the gearbox from the K75 - many thanks for all the help and support (the Video sessions were great Tim - thankyou).
Someone asked where I am - in Victoria, Australia (little town called Tyabb, right in the middle of the Mornington Peninsula). Probably does not mean much to most of you, but it is about 40-50 kilometres from Melbourne - does that maybe help?.

Based on the videos, I think I will build a "box" to support the engine when removing the gearbox.

Before I get started and into it all I would like to know what lubricants are used for the clutch spline, and the rear wheel spline, what size (diam. and length) are the two rods which are used to support the gearbox when sliding it off the engine, and do I need to replace the oil seal at the "back of the gearbox" - which I hear is prone to leaking?

Thanks, Arthur

TimTyler · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2014, 02:57:02 AM »

Arthur,

I'm using the BMW-recommended spline lube. Castrol Optimol, I think.

Given your experience, if the rear main seal is not leaking, you should probably leave it alone. If you're feeling adventurous and decide to remove the clutch pack, there's an O-ring behind that which can be replaced easily. That will help prevent oil leaks. Read about the clutch pack removal/installation before you do it. It's pretty simple but there are a few things you want to do just right.

Have you seen this info yet? http://www.verrill.com/moto/newkbike.shtml

Motorhobo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2014, 07:39:22 AM »

I'm using Guard Dog moly for all splines...didn't know about the Castrol product until Tim's post below or that it was bmw recommended. Guard Dog is sold by www.beemerboneyard.com which is a great resource. Check them out and see if they ship worldwide. They also have a variety of washers, seals, rings and sell a six-pack of oil filters at a good price.

For the guide bolts I got a pair of 78mm hex head bolts, cut the heads off and scored a slot for a screwdriver at cutoff end. They've always turned in and out by hand but I figured a slot couldn't hurt. Make sure once the tranny is retracted on the guides, you reach in and make sure the clutch pushrod is retracted back into the trans housing and clear of the clutch, otherwise you could bend it if you drop the trans on removal.

You will also need an alignment tool to reinstall clutch pack if you remove it. Lots of info on that here. Check the bell housing for the presence of gear oil. If you smell any, you'll need to replace the clutch pushrod seal at the rear end of the transmission. Search this forum for more info on that.

Other little things I've found very handy are those big two-foot twist-tie things, better than bungees for tying the footpegs and brakes out of the way -- that Stuff doesn't need to be removed, just bound to the frame above the work area. If you don't have a metric hex socket set 3/8in drive 3mm - 10mm that would be a good investment too. Oh...and a 3/8in torque wrench wouldn't hurt.

And it would not hurt to check the valve clearance...what the hell...you're into it anyway, might as well go for the 100% peace of mind treatment. There's a guy here in US who sells valve adjustment tools and clutch alignment tools cheap. PM me if interested.

Van

arthurf · « **Reply #17 on:** April 07, 2014, 04:17:28 AM »

G'day All,
The Honda was easier to solve than I expected, and the Suzuki was just a service. Now the K75 has jumped up the priority list and I have started taking bits off!.
Also I have put in an application to join the local BMW Motorcycle Club - to get help, to attend their service afternoons and to be able to borrow/use some BMW specific tools.
So things are moving along nicely, but slowly.
Next question is what to do with the ABS units on the back wheel - do they have to be disconnected or is there enough room to get the rear swinging arm off and the gearbox out?.
Just under 2 1/2 hours so far!.
What fun?
Arthur

Motorhobo · « **Reply #18 on:** April 07, 2014, 06:35:34 AM »

Unbolt the ABS units from where they attach to the footpeg units and the mounting arms under the battery and bungee them to the frame and out of the way. Note that the lines coming from the front are hard lines --you don't want to bend or screw with those unless you have to. Otherwise, unless you want to take this opportunity to bleed or replace the brake lines you don't need to mess with the brakes at all, just bungee the whole footpeg assembly out of the way MC and all.

On the other hand, brake lines do deteriorate and fail...a buddy of mine with a 99 R1100 went down and off the road because scaling on the interior of the original rubber lines detached and clogged up the line causing the brakes to lock up. And since bleeding ABS is more of a PITA than non ABS I figured last clutch spline wurde would be a good time to replace with Spiegler steel lines.

Sound like fun -- I'm in the middle of the same thing on one of my k75s...except this one has no ABS which makes it a bit easier.

Van

Motorhobo · « **Reply #19 on:** April 07, 2014, 01:12:20 PM »

Btw you probably figured this out but once the caliper comes off, it and the ABS unit get bungled together out of the way. That's a pretty big unwieldy bundle there...but it does allow you to keep the brake systems intact. That's why I like those big twist-tie things...they make it so much easier to get the huge caliper/ABS/footpeg bundle bound up out of the way for trans removal without twisting things around or having th bungee shift and the whole thing fall apart...

arthurf · « **Reply #20 on:** April 11, 2014, 12:03:39 AM »

Ok gents,
After the best part of 3 or 4 days, I have the gearbox out of the K75. Nothing particularly difficult - just an awful lot to take off!.
I guess the good news is that the seals all look OK, no leaks or traces of oil, the oil in the gearbox was a lovely colour - like a dark honey colour. I suppose the rest of the good news is that there is nothing broken - the problem seems to be the Tapered Grub Screw was fairly loose.

So how do I fix it?. I believe from the gearbox diagram that there is an indentation (which the Tapered Grub Screw fits into) on the Gearchange Pedal Shaft - so there should be no difficulty getting it back together. Equally the manual suggest the use of a Threadlock to try and maintain the Grub Screw tension - true of false? If true, what threadlock is best for the job - and I assume that it needs to be clean from oil?.
Thanks for all the help, support and encouragement so far - but I will keep in touch to see how I go!.
Cheers for now, Arthur

TimTyler · « **Reply #21 on:** April 11, 2014, 12:52:28 AM »

There's a YouTube video that will help you find the grub screw.

The first time I tightened my grub screw it was lose again in a month.

The second time I did it I cleaned the grub screw and threaded hole with degreaser thoroughly with Q-tips. I used red Loctite on the screw, tightened it up all the way, and let it set overnight. 6k Miles and it's still tight as ever.

News:

Author Topic: K75 Gear change (Shift) return spring (Read 16465 times)