Author Topic: Marc Parnes Static Balancer  (Read 32371 times)

Offline mystic red

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Marc Parnes Static Balancer
« on: April 30, 2011, 03:01:51 PM »
I just received my marc parnes static balancer the other day and balanced my Road Pilot 2 rear. Took about 5 minutes. It's a simple but well made precise unit and by the time I balance the 3 tires I need to do it will have paid for itself. Cost to do one bike was $105 shipped but I added a cone to do my wife's bike also which added $25. It is surprisingly small and I could not believe it was in the package that sat in my mailbox. I put a pen in this pic to give a size reference.
The black caps are to keep the bearings and cones from sliding off the 1/2 inch axle.
One side of the bearings is flat so it can be set up on any two equal height stands, saw horses, etc.


 
Here it is set up on my Chinese jack stands with the old LT wheel on it.



When I balanced the new tire on the RT wheel I got on EBay the heavy side was the valve stem so I added 3 weights (7 grams each) to the opposite side, tucked into the spoke. This was pretty good, probably as good as a shop would do, but not perfect. Since the weather is so crappy here, I had time to fiddle with it a little, and found that the third spoke was now the heaviest so I stuck one 7 gram weight to the opposite side. Perfection. The wheel could be put in any position now and there was NO movement. I was hoping to hide the weights inside the spoke but had to settle for one out on the wheel.



When I checked the wheel/tire that came off the bike it was 1/2 ounce off of being balanced but I don't know if that's because it was worn or not balanced correctly. It will be interesting to pull the wheel after about 5K and check it again. And if it is out of balance by then will rebalancing add miles to the tire?
Anyway, I no longer have to go to a motorcycle shop to get my wheels balanced and scratched. Just go to the local tire store and he mounts them, so far for free, and then balance them myself.
Here's a link to a video:



And to Marc Parnes Products for Motorcycles:

http://www.marcparnes.com/index.html

Offline johnny

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2011, 09:44:16 PM »
greetings mystic rod...

that thing is so last century...

i use ride~on... 2 8oz bottles... 7oz in front... 9oz in the back...

f ing smoothest ride ever... the ch1t is magic...

j o
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 10:08:53 PM »
The ch!t is snake oil. Along with Dyna Beads.

Offline johnny

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 10:21:18 PM »
Scott
"94 K11Lt

freak... you named your motobrick scott...

furthermore your wheels are too dirty to get a good static balance...

j o
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 10:54:56 PM »
greetings mystic rod...

that thing is so last century...

i use ride~on... 2 8oz bottles... 7oz in front... 9oz in the back...

f ing smoothest ride ever... the ch1t is magic...

j o

Great stuff. Gets the frankenduck seal of approval.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2011, 05:51:00 PM »
Ride On is great for plugging holes but one of you guys show me proof it balances tires besides internet fodder and the Ride On co. Same with beads. I'll even take a good theory.

Offline frankenduck

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2011, 06:29:39 PM »
Automatic dynamic balancing is proven physics that used in everything from washing machines to industrial equipment.  It's even used on, wait for it, truck tires.

Warning: This is a long read but may be of interest to some people.

After getting several flats this year I decided to break down and finally start doing my own tire changes.  One thing I looked into was balancing.  

When I first read up on Dynabeads I got the impression they were snake oil because it's somewhat counterintuitive to think that throwing some magic beads inside your tire will balance it.

So I decided to poke around and read numerous posts about Dynabeads in all sorts of forums.  Just about everyone who has actually tried either reports good results and extended, more even tire wear or, worst case, no change but the vast majority of users of them are believers.  There's also quite a few shops out there that recommend (and of course sell) them.

There are, of course, naysayers with arguments like "If they're so great then why don't manufacturers use them?"  "I've been a mechanic for 20 years and the way we've always done it is fine."  "It's physically impossible because /insert reason here./"  Interestingly, none of these people seemed to have actually tried an automatic dynamic balancing(ADB) product like Dynabeads or Ride-On.

After reading so many positive reviews I came to the conclusion that there's some real physics to ADB because quite a few users reported noticeable vibrations going away when using Dynabeads and it's hard to write off testimonials like that to a placebo effect.

My next objective was to get a physical understanding of what was going on to satisfy the engineer in me.  I found a couple of YouTube clips that show ADB in action.

Here's a demonstration of a truck wheel balancing product that conceptually applies the same physics:


Here's a demo of Dynabeads in a plastic bottle:


In addition to how ADB is used in a variety of different trucking tire applications (like Equal and XactBalance) I found that it's used in other applications as well:

- Tires on US Air Force jets.

- Keeping industrial fans balanced between cleanings.  The fan blades pick up dirt and get out of balance between cleanings so ADB is used to keep the fan assembly in balance as it collects dirt.  There's some other industrial applications as well.

- Most modern washing machines have a ring of liquid around the tub to compensate for unbalanced loads.

Anyhow, the bottom line for me is that ADB is not some form of snake oil.

If you want to get deep into the math and physics of it:
http://rsta.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/366/1866/705.full.pdf

So, now that I've decided that ADB is real, what product to use?  Here's the options I've found:

- The cheapest way to get ADB is to add antifreeze to your tires and I saw several mentions of that on car forums.  Antifreeze is good because it doesn't freeze and doesn't break down.  BUT, this is NOT suited to motorcycle use because if you get a puncture then you're pissing slippery liquid on your tire tread.  But I thought I'd mention it anyhow though because it's another implementation of ADB in vehicle tires.

- Dynabeads: Little ceramic beads that roll around in your tires.
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/motorcycle.htm

- Ride-On Tire Protection System:  This is a liquid which also serves an as automatic sealant for punctures.
http://www.ride-on.com/motorcycle-formula-mot.html

- Several guys over on ADV have had good luck using 0.12 gram Airsoft pellets.

I think all of these have some common pros:

1) You don't need a static or dynamic balancer and those damned wheel weights that leave adhesive crap on your wheels.

2) Dynamic balancing for the life of the tire as opposed to using wheel weights which only truly balance the wheel/tire assembly when it's mounted.  Aside from the fact that ADB products keep your tires in balance as they wear this should also improve (reduce) tire wear for longer tire life.

3) Easy for the DIYer.

They all have some common cons too:

1) Some tire manufacturers will void your warranty if you use these products.  I'm not sure why other than it's another out for them financially.  I've seen no posts where anyone claimed that an ADB product ruined their tire. Personally, given the level of quality of tires today this isn't a big concern to me.  Also note that Dynabeads or Airsoft pellets can be poured out and leave no trace and Ride-On simply washes out with water so how would they know anyhow?

Specific pros and cons:

Dynabeads

Pros:

1) Can be re-used if you're careful unmounting your ties.

Cons:

1) A little pricey for what you get IMO.

2) I suppose it could get messy if you're not careful revmoing the tire.

3) It's pretty rare but these are small enough to get caught in the end of the valve core when you're refilling and leave the valve stuck open so your tire completely deflates.  


(Image borrowed from MOA forum.)

This isn't the end of the world but it'd probably be a good idea to have a valve core remover in your tool kit just in case to rectify the situation.  The company that makes Dynabeads also sells "filtered" valve cores that eliminate the risk of this occurring.

4) Since they're little balls rolling around they will come to rest at the bottom of the tire at every stop and your wheel isn't actually balanced again until the wheel gets spun up but at lower speeds balancing isn't that critical and most tire wear occurs at higher speeds anyhow.  It's only 1 ounce in the front and 2 in the back and none of the reviews I read indicated they felt anything off at lower speeds.

5) If the air from a compressor has a high degree of humidity, these can supposedly bunch up.  Not sure how much of an issue that really is though.


Airsoft 0.12 gram pellets: (most of the posts I read guys were using 1 ounce in the front and 2oz in the rear - similar to Dynabeads)

Pros:

1) Readily available and inexpensive. (I bought 1000 (about 4 ounces - there's 236/ounce) for $4.75 shipped on eBay.)

Cons:

1) Unlike Ride-On and Dynabeads which can be added by removing the valve core, these are larger so you need to install them prior to setting the bead.


Ride-On TPS:

Pros:

1) Easy to install.  You just remove the valve core and squirt it in.

2) Seals punctures up to 1/4" diameter. (Only in the middle third of the tire since it's a liquid.)

3) Fairly clean.  It's a "green" liquid that washes out with water.

4) Not as "dynamic" as Dynabeads so doesn't collect at the bottom of the tire on every stop.  (Though I'm not conivnced that's really an issue with Dynabeads for reasons already discussed.)

5) Since it's also a sealant it reduces the little bit of air you lose over time.


Cons:

1) The most expensive alternative.

2) If the bike sits for an extended period then you need to ride 3-5 miles to get it properly redistributed when the tire warms up. (You also need to do this when it's initially installed.)

Conclusion

Since I generally ride my RS and LT on longer rides and had 3 flat tires on the LT last year, I plan to try Ride-On on those bikes.  Since I use my K75 for running errands and around town stuff I plan to try some Airsoft pellets on that bike.

JMHO.

YMMV.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 08:04:58 PM »
Yea, I read all that when I was researching beads and juice. These guys really made my head hurt. http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7501919888/m/56419383201 It's worse than an oil thread and no one seems to agree on them. I wanted to believe but in the end it wasn't happening. And as far as balancing truck tires.........you'd be hard pressed to feel if they were balanced.

Offline frankenduck

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 08:16:47 PM »
Its proven physics.  You probably don't believe in countersteering either.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 08:31:12 PM »
This is going to turn into a train wreck. I haven't seen it proven in motorcycle tires or any tire for that matter. I know lead balances. I'm happy.

Offline frankenduck

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2011, 08:36:56 PM »
If your brain can't make the leap of taking a physical principle and seeing that it would work across a variety of applications then don't use the stuff.

There's valid physics behind it that's been around since the early part of the last century and it backed up by lots of testimonials.

Stay in the dark ages.  Use lead.  I don't care.
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2011, 09:14:23 PM »
Quote
What about all this internal "balancing media" I've heard about?
People have been selling all kinds of "stuff" to put inside your tires that is supposed to "balance" them at speed for years now. There's been all colors of goop and "slime" that are even supposed to seal flats as well. Just don't be around when it comes time to take the old tire off. Yuck, what a mess! Others have hyped glass bead, ball bearings and other "media" of all descriptions. Does it actually work? I don't know,  and aside from the claims made by the folks that are selling it, I've never read an actual independent test anywhere verifying that it does. I've been all over the MotoGP pits and haven't seen anyone putting anything but air or nitrogen in their race bike tires. Since this "media" stuff is claimed to work only above 30 mph anyway it would be next to impossible to actually test it since there isn't any equipment to my knowledge that can spin balance a wheel up that fast. In my view more independent testing is certainly needed. You can always find the guy who will buy it, install it and think it's just great. It really depends on how far out of balance his tire was to start with and how sensitive he is to detecting imbalance. Besides, we often assume that whatever we spend money on was money smartly spent. Right? Human nature at work I guess.

One major independent industry publication, Motorcycle Consumer News®, who is known for it's lack of paid advertising and subsequent impartiality tested one of these products in the October 2006 issue. Their editor's take on the particular "media" they tested was that the tire,  "felt heavier, with a stronger sense of gyro stability, but was noticeably less smooth running than when factory balanced, but perhaps just slightly better than with the original weights removed." Stronger sense of gyro stability? I'm always looking for my bike to turn easier and faster so the one thing I'm not looking for is more gyro stability! They ended with a simple, "Our advice: Go for a proper spin balance when you buy tires; it's more effective.

Good night, Chet.

Offline johnny

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2011, 10:21:47 PM »
w t f . . .

who let sugarhillctd register as mystic rod...

enough of this... im calling lead as boooocheeeee...

juice or nothing...

j o
  • :johnny i parks my 96 eleven hundert rs motobrick in dodge county cheezconsin  :johnny

Offline frankenduck

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2011, 11:31:03 PM »
It's a train wreck alright.  The Luddite Express just ran into the wall of reality.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2011, 08:59:15 PM »
Gleaned from the Ride On web site, courtesy of jo.

Quote
Balancing and Ride and Stability Issues
The product manufactured by our leading competitor was originally designed for use in bicycle tires, and according to their website is “not intended for speeds in excess of 65 mph”. Ride-On is designed to actually help hydrodynamically balance tires at highway speeds. Once installed in a tire, it will actually act to dampen vibrations for the life of a tire so you do not need periodic rebalancing. Although we don’t condone speeding, our dealers and customers comment that their bikes actually run smoother at speeds as high as 150 mph. Once installed, you should not try to rebalance a tire containing Ride-On – just let it do what it is was formulated to do!


Sounds like they advocate initially balancing your tires. Wonder how Dyna Beads and Ride On mix?

Offline johnny

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2011, 09:49:06 PM »
n y a w l  mystic rod... you are gonna be banished to the dissenters paradise...

j o
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2011, 10:57:14 PM »
Gleaned from the Ride On web site, courtesy of jo.

Quote
Balancing and Ride and Stability Issues
The product manufactured by our leading competitor was originally designed for use in bicycle tires, and according to their website is “not intended for speeds in excess of 65 mph”. Ride-On is designed to actually help hydrodynamically balance tires at highway speeds. Once installed in a tire, it will actually act to dampen vibrations for the life of a tire so you do not need periodic rebalancing. Although we don’t condone speeding, our dealers and customers comment that their bikes actually run smoother at speeds as high as 150 mph. Once installed, you should not try to rebalance a tire containing Ride-On – just let it do what it is was formulated to do!


Sounds like they advocate initially balancing your tires. Wonder how Dyna Beads and Ride On mix?

1) No, they don't.

2) No, they don't.
Once I had a Collie pup. Dug a hole and covered him up. Now I sit there by the hour. Waiting for a Collie-flower.
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Offline mystic red

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Re: Review: Static Balancer
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2011, 11:40:31 PM »
Uhhhhh, let's get a good oil thread going. :D

Offline hambeemer

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Balancer
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2011, 10:09:25 AM »
hmmm...

I have one bent front rim. need to head for Seattle and frankenduck to purchase a used one.. anyway dynabeads does remove the vibration.  some rides I crack the throttle and the mirrors are vibrating at 80. then I drop the speed to 70 and wait for a few miles and then hit 80 and the mirrors are smooth.. well for a k1100RS that is.
the real question I have is those bags that the dynabeads come in.. Can they be tossed into the new tire and melt or disintegrate letting the beads fly out... sure be alot easier than thru the valve.

Offline johnny

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Re: Marc Parnes Static Balancer
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 05:55:15 PM »
  • :johnny i parks my 96 eleven hundert rs motobrick in dodge county cheezconsin  :johnny

Offline mystic red

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Re: Marc Parnes Static Balancer
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2011, 05:35:44 PM »
Trudy puts that stuff in her coffee.

Offline Niemand

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Re: Marc Parnes Static Balancer
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2011, 07:36:59 PM »
It is surprisingly small.

To get back to Mystic Red's surprisingly small package...

I have the Parnes balancer as well, and agree it is a fine chunk of metal should you prefer balancing using the traditional method.  Recommended for dissenters and tool junkies alike.
Niemand
1994 K1100RS

Offline mystic red

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Re: Marc Parnes Static Balancer
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2011, 09:28:41 PM »
It is surprisingly small.

To get back to Mystic Red's surprisingly small package...

I have the Parnes balancer as well, and agree it is a fine chunk of metal should you prefer balancing using the traditional method.  Recommended for dissenters and tool junkies alike.

Finally, a voice of reason. ;)

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