Author Topic: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle  (Read 48820 times)

Offline Grim

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2013, 07:04:00 PM »
Threw my elcheapo harbor freight pressure gauge on after reading what mikeison posted about going lean. That's sort of what I was thinking when I posted the other day. Today it's running perfect.


Held right at 40psi. It recovered as soon as I blipped the throttle. I was under the impression I'd see it raise over 40psi but it may be with it not under actual load it may not.  Mulling over leaving the gauge on for a fee days. It's a pretty cheap item and not sure I trust it not to fail.

Post a little more later when I can get to a real keyboard.

Edit:

Mines doing it intermittently and thats a bit of the frustration. I cant find a part that I can say is bad because I haven't changed anything.  Regulator failing I would think its good or bad. Typically the diaphragm is what goes. Same with Vacuum leaks. They typically don't heal.   :dunno

Its got to be electrical. Either pump failing or we have a problem with the injection or ignition.

Somebody else clean the connections for their ECM and temp sensors Thats the only thing I did to mine yesterday and it straightened up after that.
1995 Morea Green K1100LT

Offline JamesInCA

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2013, 04:52:59 PM »
James:
Does the Field for the alternator also go through that same relay?

Do you mean for the K75, or the K1100? I can only speak for the K75, as that's what I have to inspect directly, and the K1100 wiring diagrams I've found online are maddeningly incomplete.

On the K75, the alternator's only connections are to the battery, and the charge indicator light on the dash, as best I can tell. I'm working from the wiring diagram right now as I'm not near the bike at the moment.

Had a chance to mess with mine today. Started fine. Not once have I had a problem starting just running when I give it gas.

Went to take it around the block and only got to the corner and then started exhibiting the problem.  I could hear the pump changing pitch and I also got the Charge light flickering on.

Limped it back home and almost didn't get it to pull up the drive back into the garage.

The charge light flickering alongside the pump sounding different sure makes it sound like you have an electrical issue affecting fuel supply. The fact that the charge light flickers suggests that the issue is more likely to be systemic, rather than something limited to, say, the fuel pump wiring. This makes me think of a grounding problem that would affect the entire bike, or, less likely, a problem with the (+) cables.

Without reading back through the whole thread, have you checked the major ground points - the main battery ground, and the ground under the tank? Using a scothbrite pad or high-grit (say 600) sandpaper on the wires to clean their connectors, and on the ground point itself to remove corrosion can help improve these. (*NO* dielectric grease on these connectors - it's an insulator and will diminish conductivity.)

Pulled the plugs looking for a obvious sign of an ignition issue and they had a brown cast but not wet like they had fouled. Changed a week ago. Darker then I would have like to have seen.

Mine are a bit darker and more brown than I expected as well. That may be just how they are.

At that point we had party to run off too. 

Got home and decided to start looking at connections. Pulled the ECM plug. Took a Q-tip and cleaned all the pins on the ECM. took a fine jewelers screw driver and made sure I didn't feel any burned spots on the plug side. I did find one connector that didn't seem seated correctly.

This could be getting close to it. I've been struggling with a different issue that I think may also be electrical-fuel-supply related; engine cuts out (but not suddenly like a bad kill switch), and then comes back, randomly. It was "fixed" for 2500 miles after the last round of work I did, then showed up again last week. I vigorously cleaned a lot of connections and had it out for ~200 miles this weekend without a hitch. The areas I cleaned were: the interior of the ignition switch, which feeds power to a lot of places (including the pump relay's coil, but not the pump's power); the ignition switch connector under the tank; the FI computer connector on the cable; the FI computer pins; each contact on the fuse box; and each blade of every fuse. I used DeOxit for this, which is similar to Stabilant -- it's an effective cleaner, and leaves behind a thin coating that improves connection. I physically rubbed each contact, thoroughly, with q-tips. If any of this had an effect, I suspect it will have been the work on the computer connections. That's something I did the first time (2500 miles ago) and this time (before the 200 mile ride). It may be as simple as that connector needing to be firmed up. One of the fuses, perhaps 1 or 6, would also be a likely candidate.

Checked the connection on the oil and temp sender. One had the wire jammed against the housing in and odd way. Made sure that wasn't rubbing against anything. I as of yet have not had a chance to pull the fairing. I wanted to check the connections on the Hall sensor.

So I decided to fire it off and see if the problem was still there.

It disappeared again. I wiggled everything i had touched trying to get it to come back and it ran fine. Did a couple laps of the block and it didn't miss a beat.

I recall reading somewhere that a bad thermostat can cause some of this, but the exact chain of how that happens escapes me at the moment. The K75's thermostat can be checked by checking resistance across pins 5 and 10 of the FI computer connector at ambient temperature and after running it til the fan comes on, and comparing the value with those in a table that the Google can dig up. It's something like 2.2kOhms at about 70F, and decreasing to very little resistance around 210F where the fan comes on. I don't know if the K1100's values would be the same, or if they're reported on the same pins (probably aren't).

James:
Is the sender for the temp gauge, Idiot light and ECM shared? My gauge seems to be functioning fine. I know on my cars its a separate sender for the gauge.

The K75 has two thermistors in a single housing stuck into the back of the radiator, near the lower-left corner. One connects to the FI computer. The other connects to a special relay in the relay box called the "Temperature Sensing Switch Unit," which activates the fan relay and the dash idiot light. Again, I can't speak to the K1100, but from your description it sounds like you have the temperature sensor in the water pump drain plug. I'm not sure whether the K1100 also has one in the radiator.

Like I have said its intermittent on mine. Its done it 4 times in 4 weeks. I was surprised it did it today.

So either it was some corrosion in the ECM plug  or Temp and pressure plugs and its fixed or I'll see it again in a few days.

With no symptoms I will have to wait.

Offline Grim

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2013, 06:10:06 PM »
Ran like a top....in fact I think its running better now then it was when I changed the plugs. Seriously thought about taking off up the road but as bad as Rushhour is here I killed that idea and the few minutes I was in it.

 Intentionally got caught in traffic on the way home trying to get it to mess up....didn't.


Maybe I'm reading too much into the charge light.


Lets think about things that are common among all the bikes. First things that comes to mind is the fuse box and the pump relay.

 Like I shared I saw a similar thing happen on a car when the contacts in the fuse box were damaged due to high current.

  On my K1100 thats fuse 6. My assumption is that circuit would be pretty close to the same on all models. On the models with the Door style AFM there is a pump circuit that is activated when air is pulls the door open. It activates a Relay. Assuming we have no major vacuum leaks and since the bikes all seem to idle fine we can assume that's working.

We could have a Relay with burnished contacts, problem with the relay socket and grounds. When the vacuum operated pressure regulator is triggered it would increase load on the pump.. There is known issues with the grounds under the tank that I have read. I would think that's probably the point the pump grounds.

Ignition:
When you throttle up there should be an advance in timing. All model bikes are basically the same design there as well.

Weak coils.....They all run multiple coils so probably a stretch. Easy enough to meter out.


Ok I was searching for a Diagram for my bike I ran across a post on K11og.org. Issues with pump getting power Ground related for one person.......maybe related. Condensation in the ECM for another.

http://k11og.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11046&sid=09c41940abe5387e516433c7ec10daa8

The Diagram shows the power for the injectors is also on the same relay as the pump.  Doesn't show the Alternator.

1995 Morea Green K1100LT

Offline MikeisonTV

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2013, 04:58:55 AM »
UPDATE:  changing the fuel pump and throttle cable, then readjusting the idle fixed my issues!!! I'm officially riding the ol girl! hank u for all the input and brainstorming

Offline Grim

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2013, 10:51:28 AM »
Good to hear!

Mines been running flawless as well but I changed no parts. Ive been running for a couple weeks with the pressure gauge and its kept rock steady pressure the whole time. Unless my pump was stiff from lack of use I haven't found it to be the source of my problems.

I'm down to blaming my problem on dirty connections on the ECM.

Bummer that we have some many similar symptoms with different issues.
1995 Morea Green K1100LT

Offline rocket23

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2013, 09:04:26 AM »
I think a 20+ old throttle cable can be the culprit . I'm replacing mine at first chance. Mine was acting the opposite,high idle and really high idle when stopping at a light. The only way too cut the idle was to use the engine/transmission and decelerate the ide that way. Being a dumb ass, I went right too the brass screws on the 4 throttle bodys......gave them all a good 1/4 turn to 1/2 turn iether way.(I'm probably so far out of whack here it aint funny) . I need too have the carbs synched, I set the idle screw (the one that sets all 4 ) and now have it idling just under 1,000 rpm's at idle........The high idle doesn't happen anymore, But I think the throttle cable may be suspect...........but first I need too r/r the water pump. Bike runs fine.....just setting that one screw brought on the symptoms described above.
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming,'WOO HOO! What a ride!'"

Offline MikeisonTV

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2013, 12:51:40 AM »
@Rocket....believe it or not it was $29 at the stealership for a new Bowden throttle cable!

Offline rocket23

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Re: K75 Throttle Response Hesitation Off Idle
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2013, 07:41:37 AM »
@Rocket....believe it or not it was $29 at the stealership for a new Bowden throttle cable!
disassembled and lubed mine, working much better, I'm gonna need new grips and cables eventually. But outsjde of looking old, they are quite functional. Gonna put fluids in today when I return from work......
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming,'WOO HOO! What a ride!'"

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