Hall Effect sensor

[jamie92j]

So i think the Hall Effect Sensor is at fault on my bike

What is the cause of failure in these?

And what exactly is the part that breaks? Is there no way of fixing it?

trying to find a second hand HEC in the UK is proving difficult!

[Inge K.]

You can buy single HES element, far cheaper than a complete unit.
You find heaps of info on the net about how to change them.
Here you can buy single elements in UK, £ 35,- each.

Inge K.

[harper]

I had a bike in the shop that was breaking down, back-firing and wouldn't take any rpm off idle. I put in a different sensor and fixed the problem. How about a description of your problem so we can get an idea of what it was doing or not doing. This kind of info may help someone in the future. Thanks......

[frankenduck]

The typical symptom of a dying HES is that the bike will just die when it gets warmed up.  Then it will start right back up once its cooled down.  Your symptoms sound like it may have been some bad wiring between the HES and it's connector, not the HES itself.

[jamie92j]

The typical symptom of a dying HES is that the bike will just die when it gets warmed up.  Then it will start right back up once its cooled down.  Your symptoms sound like it may have been some bad wiring between the HES and it's connector, not the HES itself.

by 'die' do you mean the engine cuts out completly? Or will it still idle?

When mine gets warm its starts spluttering and mis-firing but the bike will still idle fine

[Inge K.]

by 'die' do you mean the engine cuts out completly?

That is the most common symptom of a failing hall sensor...when the engine have heated up a bit.

Inge K.

[jamie92j]

by 'die' do you mean the engine cuts out completly?

That is the most common symptom of a failing hall sensor...when the engine have heated up a bit.

Inge K.

Ok well that is not what mine is doing

When the bike is warm it still idles fine, but it wont rev up past 3k, it will just splutter and misfire like crazy, if you try driving it like this its like a 'bucking bronco'

[frankenduck]

by 'die' do you mean the engine cuts out completly? Or will it still idle?

Not sure what your definition of die is but dead people don't breath and engines that die don't idle.

[mystic red]

by 'die' do you mean the engine cuts out completly?

That is the most common symptom of a failing hall sensor...when the engine have heated up a bit.

Inge K.

Ok well that is not what mine is doing

When the bike is warm it still idles fine, but it wont rev up past 3k, it will just splutter and misfire like crazy, if you try driving it like this its like a 'bucking bronco'

Check the HES by heating with a hair dryer at idle. Does the engine die? But I would check your rubber bits for an air leak. This sounds more like your symptoms.

[Inge K.]

Also check all coil connections, especially ground....HT wires, caps and spark plugs.

Inge K.

[jamie92j]

Also check all coil connections, especially ground....HT wires, caps and spark plugs.

Inge K.

In the process of removing the lower fairing and tank, this being an LT model there seems to be a million bolts holding the thing together

I checked the coils already and all resistances seemed ok and the ground is good on them, although can anyone point me to the accurate specs for the coils resistances?

Im unsure it would be a air leak as it only happens once the bike is warmed up

thanks for all the help so far guys, its much appreciated  :2thumbup:

[jamie92j]

Im also doing this work outside on a public road as i cant get the bike to my usual garage location

Its getting dark early these days and the temp is hovering around 1 degree Celsius, FUN!

[jamie92j]

Also could someone give me a guide on how to measure the HT leads to check they are operating correctly?

thanks

[jamie92j]

one more....   :lol:

I removed the HES cover and the sensor looks in fantastic condition visually, almost like its been changed recently, all shinny and nice

I have bought a new (second hand) HES which is guarantied to be working which lets say is 'showing its age' visually

[Inge K.]

I checked the coils already and all resistances seemed ok and the ground is good on them, although can anyone point me to the accurate specs for the coils resistances?

Primary winding: ~0,5 ohm  secondary winding: ~13 Kohm.......also check for short to ground.

HT wires: ~6 Kohm.

[frankenduck]

The HES will almost always look new since it is pretty sealed behind it's cover..

[jamie92j]

cheers guys, will continue on tomorrow and let you know how i get on!

[jamie92j]

Ok HES sensor replaced, bike running fine!!  :2thumbup:

The symptoms again just to clarify for others:

Cold engine - bike starts and runs fine

Warm engine - Bike idles fine but wont rev up past 2000rpm, coughs and splutters like a madman, riding it is like being on a 'bucking bronco'

Also another odd symptom i had which i am unsure if its related (will find out after some road miles) was my speedo clock would rise and fall on its own while the bike was in neutral on the stand, dosent seem to be doing it anymore!

thanks to all for there help....

[Inge K.]

Hmm........."won`t rev up past 2000 rpm"..........sounds more like a typical shorted TPS problem to me.
Good to hear that you have the problem sorted out.

Inge K.

[sw1pascal]

Ok HES sensor replaced, bike running fine!!  :2thumbup:

The symptoms again just to clarify for others:

Cold engine - bike starts and runs fine

Warm engine - Bike idles fine but wont rev up past 2000rpm, coughs and splutters like a madman, riding it is like being on a 'bucking bronco'

Also another odd symptom i had which i am unsure if its related (will find out after some road miles) was my speedo clock would rise and fall on its own while the bike was in neutral on the stand, dosent seem to be doing it anymore!

thanks to all for there help....

Good evening, I have a very similar problem. Engine starts nice when its cold, then after driving 40-50 miles it starts coughing and won't rev above 3000 rpm. Stop engine for few minutes and the journey can continue. From your description I read that you were working on your k1100 at the roadside. Here is my question. Is it possible to change the HES without specialised tools? I have organised two spare HES from ebay in recent weeks. The bike is currently parked at a friends place in Germany as I could not drive it back to UK in the current state. I am flying over for a weekend soon and wanted to repair it myself. I have read a lot about the need for a small electronic device to adjust the timing. Grateful for a few hints, so that I can drive back the bike to UK.

cheers

p.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

First off, I'm just a barnyard mechanic.  I don't have any of those special tools that they have at the dealer.  What I have been able to learn is that when you take off the cover you will see the plate the sensors are mounted on.  As you look at this plate you'll see a semi-circular cutout in the plate that lines up with a similar cutout on the body around it.

If you line up the two cutouts so they make a round opening the timing will be close enough to ride the bike.  You probably won't notice any loss in performance.  Some riders will rotate the plate a small amount clockwise to advance the timing a few degrees to get more power, but you won't be far off if you just line up the cutouts.

BTW, the hole the cutouts make is there to allow a tuner to use a timing light on the timing marks behind the sensor plate.  Trouble is, the front wheel makes it almost impossible to really see down into the hole.

[Scott_]

When was the last time the fuel filter was changed.

[sw1pascal]

@ The Mighty Gryphon: Thanks for the explanation, that gives me a bit of hope that I can indeed get the bike into a running state, so that I can get to back to my own garage with a bit more tools, and as I am not a moto gp rider i might not need the last hp to get to the UK.

@ Scott__: fuel filter and pump were changed as part of a large service in April last year, the problem with the engine i encountered after about 200 km of total driving in June last year for the first time. I did not really have time to look into this, as I have moved house and country in the 2nd half of the year. I am now kind of settled so want to get the bike here as spring approaches. How can I check whether its the fuel filter that causes this? I just want to get the bike going, if it can go 60 - 70 mph that would be enough to drive over to UK in an acceptable time.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

The easiest way to confirm a bad fuel filter is to simple replace it.  Go to an auto parts shop and get a metal shelled fuel filter with 5/16" or 8mm hose connections.  You don't need that grossly overpriced BMW part.  Those cheap auto parts shop filters work on millions of automobiles, each one using thousands of gallons of fuel with minimal failures.

[sw1pascal]

thanks, will give it a try if on my error search...plenty of things to go through...

all electrical connections
false air
hes
fuel pump/filter
...i guess i will just start with the HES test as this is closest symptom wise... to what i read in the forum. and after a ebay shopping spree i have 2 of them lying around.