Author Topic: K75C with strange vibration  (Read 21819 times)

Offline awfers

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K75C with strange vibration
« on: February 27, 2012, 02:09:00 PM »
Hi all,

First post here.... and I need some help, in a rather frustrating in desperate situation. Two years ago I bought a K75C, in very good condition. Last summer I had a slow speed spill on the bike (front tyre hit a piece of metal), only cosmetic damage.

After the spill I changed the tyres for Michelin Pilot Activ, front is 100/90 18 and rear is 120/90 18, since the day I changed the tyres (but never before this) I've noticed a strange sensation that feels like there's a vibration which seems to come through the rear. I can feel it particularly if I sit with my feet clamped against side of the bike on the pegs. I can only explain it as the feeling when a bearing is dead, almost as if I'm riding on sand paper, sometimes it's very present, sometimes hardly at all. Here's what I have noticed:

1. It doesn't happen all of the time. For instance, I had parked it over the past three months, rode it for the first time in a long time on Saturday morning, no (or almost no) strange vibration feeling.

2. It can vary in intensity one ride to the next. Today at midday I rode to work (5km) there was little in the way of vibration. Got on the bike after work and it got progressively worse the more I rode. I should note it's about 8°C out today.

3. It doesn't happen most of the time if the bike is leaned over in a corner, but sometimes it's lessened but still present.

4. It will sometimes go away of I back off on the throttle, sometimes not

5. It will sometimes go away if I pull in the clutch, sometimes not.

6. It will sometimes go away if I apply the brakes, sometimes not.

7. The longer distance I ride, the worse it seems to get.

8. It "appears" over 15kph, goes away around 70 to 80 (still present but not as bad as before).

9. There is no sound that accompanies it.

10. It does not seem to lessen on different roads/surfaces (concrete or tarmac)


Here's what I've tried so far:

Refitting the front and rear wheels, using correct toque settings. No difference.

I thought it was the front wheel bearings, so I replaced those.. That wasn't it (they did need replacing though, not horrid, but not great either).

Swingarm is in good shape (no lateral movement)

There's no lateral play in the rear wheel (at all).

I thought it also might have been the u-joint in the drive shaft, but on greasing the splines this past weekend, it's not that (the driveshaft is in perfect condition, splines and all, looks almost new). Oddly enough though, there was almost none of this vibration/sensation after having greased the splines yesterday, it only came back today with a vengeance.

Now I'm thinking it might be coming from the Final Drive. I've changed the FD oil each year since owning it, never seems to be much if anything in the way of metal particles in the oil. Will change it again this week to check.

Could the FD cause these sort of on/off symptoms? Or could it be a problem with the clutch? (but it comes and goes and isn't constant?)

Could the wheels be out of balance?

Or, could it possibly be the tyres themselves? I rode my brother's K75S, it had a slightly similar feeling but much much much less pronounced, he has the same Pilot Sport Activ tyre, but in a different size.


Any help would be much appreciated! I love my K....


Thanks,
Awfers


Offline johnny

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 02:43:10 PM »
greetings awfers...

welcome to motobrick.com...

at what rpm range does this vibration occur....

j o
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Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 02:48:52 PM »
Hi J O,

Thanks! Was pointed over here by someone on the K Yahoo group.

What RPM range does it happen: any, doesn't matter what gear is selected either.


Offline mystic red

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 02:58:09 PM »
Quote
After the spill I changed the tyres for Michelin Pilot Activ, front is 100/90 18 and rear is 120/90 18, since the day I changed the tyres (but never before this) I've noticed a strange sensation that feels like there's a vibration which seems to come through the rear.

If this is true I think you answered your own question. Bad tire. Or balance....welcome to the site!

Offline johnny

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 03:06:11 PM »
so you didnt ride it between the spill and the new tires... is that right...

j o
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Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2012, 03:14:26 PM »
Hi J O,

No, I did, this vibration wasn't present... Only appeared after the tyre change.



Thanks,
Awfers

Offline frankenduck

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2012, 03:17:33 PM »
If the front's out of whack (untrue or misbalanced) then it would most likely come through the handlebars.

Have you checked your shock mounts?  What kind of shock do you have?  How many miles?

What happens if you put it on the center stand and spin up the rear wheel in second or third gear?
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Offline johnny

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2012, 03:20:15 PM »
o... got it... im betting on that ocd mystic rods diagnoses...

j o
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Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2012, 03:29:48 PM »
If the front's out of whack (untrue or misbalanced) then it would most likely come through the handlebars.

Have you checked your shock mounts?  What kind of shock do you have?  How many miles?

What happens if you put it on the center stand and spin up the rear wheel in second or third gear?

Thanks, it's not coming through the handlebars... Rear shock, haven't really looked at that yet. Will try the 2nd / 3rd gear test tomorrow to see if I can feel it. Would be interesting if I can't...


And thanks Mystic Red, that's what I'm hoping..

Cheers,
Awfers

Offline mystic red

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2012, 04:01:23 PM »
Did you balance the tires? If not, try that. Or pour some of jo's snake oil in them.

Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2012, 04:24:10 PM »
That's what I wanted to try first, before order new ones...

Will keep you guys up to date on progress!

Thanks,
Awfers


Offline HCorn

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2012, 06:43:08 PM »
"Mystic Rod"?!  Well that has a totally different connotation.
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Offline frankenduck

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2012, 06:46:20 PM »
"Mystic Rod"?!  Well that has a totally different connotation.

There's a history behind this.  When he initially set up his account name it had a typo in it.  He asked me to change ti for him. I changed it to Mystic Rod - which he didn't think was too funny. :laugh
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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2012, 06:47:44 PM »
I know you said you checked the drive shaft but this sounds like a bad uni joint to me. Not worn bearings but too much lateral movement which will sometimes get in ballance and sometimes not. Once they get into center and ballance they will stay there while they keep spinning.

Offline wmax351

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2012, 07:43:06 PM »
I know you said you checked the drive shaft but this sounds like a bad uni joint to me. Not worn bearings but too much lateral movement which will sometimes get in ballance and sometimes not. Once they get into center and ballance they will stay there while they keep spinning.

That sounds right to me too.

Other option: Check the wheels carefully for lateral and radial runout. The cast wheels can bend, and due to the beefy frame and triple clamp, its more likely to be towards the wheel.
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Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2012, 01:23:59 AM »
ARGH!! I'm sorry Mystic RED.... (what have I done?)  :embarass:



Rick G & wmax351, if you mean the u-joint in the drive shaft, I inspected it very closely when I lubed the splines on Sunday, the driveshaft looks almost brand new, little if any wear on the splines and the u-joint looks in perfect condition, there's no stiffness or play, and it isn't "notchy". My brother has ordered a new driveshaft (his splines are badly worn) and I'll beg/plead to try it on my bike first to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks,
Awfers

Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2012, 02:18:43 PM »
UPDATE:

Ok, I did the Plank test (putting the bike on the centre stand with a plank under it to raise the rear wheel, then putting it in 2nd and 3rd)...

Verdict is: My rear wheel wobbles like wobbly thing wobbling home to matron...


I've verified that there's no play in the FD (trying the push/pull on the side of the wheel, no movement in the "hub" area).

So I'm guessing it's either the wheel is slightly bent or it's a bad tyre (it didn't do this with the old tyres). I'm off to get the wheels balanced on Saturday to see if that will fix it...


Cheers,
Awfers

Offline HCorn

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2012, 07:32:32 PM »
Hmmmmm.  I'm trying to diagnose an intermittent shutter in mine.  Although I'm fairly convinced it is in the shock (will know in the next couple days), I also am riding brand new tires and this shudder just started.

My new tires are . . .

wait for it . . .

wait for it . . .

Michelin Pilot Activs.
1986 K75T

Rick G

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2012, 08:32:09 PM »
Has the tire been inflated enough to get the beads to pop onto the rim all the way round. Maybe get a tire place to remove it and replace it in a different position. May need to inflate it to 60-70psi to get it up on the bead.

Offline DRxBMW

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2012, 09:05:44 PM »
UPDATE:

Ok, I did the Plank test (putting the bike on the centre stand with a plank under it to raise the rear wheel, then putting it in 2nd and 3rd)...

Verdict is: My rear wheel wobbles like wobbly thing wobbling home to matron...

So I'm guessing it's either the wheel is slightly bent or it's a bad tyre (it didn't do this with the old tyres). I'm off to get the wheels balanced on Saturday to see if that will fix it...

If the wheel is truly bent, balancing is NOT going to cure the wobble.

Possible the tire is wobbling, you should be able to spot the difference.

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Offline Scott_

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2012, 10:20:35 PM »
UPDATE:

Ok, I did the Plank test (putting the bike on the centre stand with a plank under it to raise the rear wheel, then putting it in 2nd and 3rd)...

Verdict is: My rear wheel wobbles like wobbly thing wobbling home to matron...


I've verified that there's no play in the FD (trying the push/pull on the side of the wheel, no movement in the "hub" area).

So I'm guessing it's either the wheel is slightly bent or it's a bad tyre (it didn't do this with the old tyres). I'm off to get the wheels balanced on Saturday to see if that will fix it...


Cheers,
Awfers

There's not supposed to be any stupid questions, only stupid answers.......................well......are you sure you have the rim square and tight to the final drive hub. No stray or foreign material stuck/wedged between the rim and the hub causing it to be crooked.
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Offline awfers

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 01:19:11 AM »
Hmmmmm.  I'm trying to diagnose an intermittent shutter in mine.  Although I'm fairly convinced it is in the shock (will know in the next couple days), I also am riding brand new tires and this shudder just started.

My new tires are . . . wait for it . . .  wait for it . . .  Michelin Pilot Activs.


Hmmmm… maybe check the tyre first ? I would be curious to know if your final outcome was the tyre...



Has the tire been inflated enough to get the beads to pop onto the rim all the way round. Maybe get a tire place to remove it and replace it in a different position. May need to inflate it to 60-70psi to get it up on the bead.


I checked that, it's uniformly seated the whole way around.




If the wheel is truly bent, balancing is NOT going to cure the wobble.

Possible the tire is wobbling, you should be able to spot the difference.

Yep, I know. If the wheel is bent, that is a whole other ball of yarn…



[
There's not supposed to be any stupid questions, only stupid answers.......................well......are you sure you have the rim square and tight to the final drive hub. No stray or foreign material stuck/wedged between the rim and the hub causing it to be crooked.


No worries, not a stupid question at all. It's one of the first things I checked as I dread the thought of the rear wheel coming off… (and I've had the wheel off three times, to check it the first time, to service the rear drum and also the spline lube job). The wheel is dead-square on the FD, there's nothing "foreign" on the mating surface, and there's only the 1/2mm gap between the edge of the drum and the FD, all the way around.

Cheers,
Awfers

Offline HCorn

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2012, 06:43:15 PM »
I did spin the rear wheel on the center stand with my hand.  It sure seemed like it was seated fine and I didn't notice anything unusual.  I'll probably put some miles on it on Friday and see how it feels. 
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Offline mystic red

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2012, 07:30:26 PM »
"Mystic Rod"?!  Well that has a totally different connotation.

There's a history behind this.  When he initially set up his account name it had a typo in it.  He asked me to change ti for him. I changed it to Mystic Rod - which he didn't think was too funny. :laugh

The bike's mystic red. Was trying to keep the mystic rod under wraps, if you know what I mean.

Offline wmax351

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Re: K75C with strange vibration
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2012, 09:14:30 PM »
Check the wheel. Ideally, stick a dial gauge on the frame, and check the wheel for runout.
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