1992 K75 - clutch? Output shaft? both? - spline lube instructions

[jiggseob]

New-ish to me K75 RT, 110,000km / 68,000 miles.  1992 with ABS.  Seems to run and ride generally ok.

The transmission ends up in the odd false-neutral between gears, most often between 4th and 5th, and especially if I shift in a hurry.  Apparently a strong indication that the clutch splines need lubing.  And change out gearbox lube and add the few ml of MoS2.

And while doing the clutch splines and moving the transmission, also check and lube the transmission output shaft / driveshaft splines.

I'm relatively new to this BMW cult-religion, so I need some skooling-up on the requisite worship of and penance to those holy splines.  I will also have to find some of the spline-lube.  We use Wurth industrial supplies, and Wurth SIG (Super Impact Grease) 3000 is available to me, or any recommendation of what is acceptable to the spline gods.

My back does not bend good any more, and I will not be propping the rear frame on a sawhorse and squatting under, if I did that the fire department would have to extricate me.  So the brick will be up on the lift, and I may fabricate some 2x4's on the lift in the form of that sawhorse.

Lots of info on this motobrick workshop forum, in particular the multi-part youtube video about how to do the work.  My personal preference (because I'm old and curmudgeonly) for work like this is to find step-by-step printed instructions, maybe with a few pictures, and print that off twice.  Then as I take it apart, I tick off and scribble each step, make some notes along the way.  On the re-assembly, use the clean set of instructions backwards, while also following the scribble notes made during dis-assembly.

My reason for posting is that I have searched around, and found multiple links to the youtube videos, which are great.  But I do not find any step by step written instructions,.  Even the manual is a bit sketchy on instructions; chapter x for rear wheel removal, then chapter y for final drive, and so on.  Attached is a document I found for final drive removal, I'd like to find something like that for checking and lubing all the driveline splines.

[Laitch]

My reason for posting is that I have searched around, and found multiple links to the youtube videos, which are great.  But I do not find any step by step written instructions,.

Jog your way through Chris Harris's spline lube video to compose your own handwritten instructions from its content. Being curmudgeonly can be fun but failing to adapt to using video technology to your advantage—especially when working with technology like your Brick—is simply nonsense.

This first time I needed to do a spline lube, I managed to compose a checklist by that means despite likely being older than you. I'm not about to apologize either for using a hydraulic lift that holds the whole Brick. If some know-it-all who could afford a lift but instead wants to scrabble around on his hands and knees among two-by-fours and saw horses for exercise while doing this procedure instead of getting a more effective workout by hiking, bicycling, walking, wood-chopping, Pilates, swimming or other activities more salubrious than twisting into a pretzel, that's his lookout.

How's that rank on your curmudgeonly scale?

[jiggseob]

Thanks Laitch, I agree with your specific and general recommendations.

I will go through the videos, and make notes.   Thats a way to make the information in a youtube video useable by me in my shop.

And the general recommendation to pull my head out of my butt and get with the program and find a way to utilize youtube, the largest easiest to access repository of do-stuff instructions in the history of mankind.

I gave myself a lift table for my 60th birthday, to lift the whole bike.  Best $350 I ever spent.   Those days of pretzelling on the floor are a distant memory.

Thanks again.

[frankenduck]

https://www.beemershop.com/product/ts-60-spline-lube.html

Similar to K75:
https://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/splinelube/splinelube.htm

Amount to use:
https://www.kbikeparts.com/classickbikes.com/ckb.tech/0.ckb.tech.files/splinelubeamt/splinelubeamt.htm

[jiggseob]

Thanks Frankenduck, that info is exactly the format that I like to work off in the shop.  Yes, from what I see the paralever setup has more splines and more complication than a 2v abs K75 like mine, but valuable information nonetheless.

I commend Drake Smith and the effort he undertook to create the document, his doing so is an indication that I might not be the worlds last dinosaur who likes orderly paper instructions in the shop.  Drake's document is functionally similar to Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (AME) task instructions, where all aspects of a task no matter how rudimentary they may seem (remove sidecovers) are check-off items.  At any rate, Well Done Mr. Smith.

I'm currently on segment 3 of 6 of the spline lube video series.  Making notes.   

[jiggseob]

Got after it this afternoon, now have trasmission out of the bike and laying on the floor.  Not really super-difficult so far.  Just lotsa bits and pieces.  All for 10-cents worth of grease and peace of mind.

After taking the final drive off, I expected to have to give the driveshaft a serious tug to get the splines of the forward half of the u-joint to overcome the spring circlip on the transmission output shaft splines.  Not so, it slid right out with ZERO effort.   Its not supposed to be that way, driveshaft just kinda floating fore and aft on the splines????

Here's a pic of my transmission input shaft splines, no sign of the "mountain topping effect".   Going to town for Honda 60 grease tomorrow.

[Laitch]

"Mountain topping" is an odd way of describing spline wear because most of the Appalachian peaks are rounded, and Mount Rainier is cup-shaped, depending upon the angle of its viewer, fergawdsake. The most accurate description of excessively worn splines would be "having a sawtooth profile" or "sawtoothing" although the maritime equivalent might be "sharktoothing."
 

What causes sawtooth wear of splines is sliding contact. The splines of the u-joint socket are clipped to the transmission output shaft so the splines of the two parts don't slide. That style of coupling precludes severe wear although somebody out there has probably overridden the system somehow and screwed them up. Maybe they came apart so easily because you don't know your own strength. Those workouts are finally paying off!
 

Is the reason you removed the engine is that you intend to paint the frame?

[natalena]

The most accurate description of excessively worn splines would be "having a sawtooth profile"

Learn new stuff everyday,  as I thought it was "ASymmetrical Spline Wear Integral Proximity Effect" better known as "ASSWIPE". 😉
FWIW, adding a few grams of Moly and PTFE powder to the grease seems to help.  Only have 78k on the brick, so it's a short term sample study.

[Laitch]

. . . I thought it was "ASymmetrical Spline Wear Integral Proximity Effect" better known as "ASSWIPE". 😉

That's a description of the spline lube application technique using simile.
 

[jiggseob]

Spent the day cleaning stuff, the inside of the bellhousing area and the swingarm.  And just a long long overdue cleaning of the belly of the beast.  This is as far as this disassembly is going...  not taking it apart to paint the frame.  Clutch spline lube is enough for me.  After throrough cleaning, no sign of any wear of the Splientology epistle of Dr. L Duck Hubbard v 23~25:

[frankenduck]

Moly Thetans are critical to avoiding spline wear.

[jiggseob]

I consulted google about what "moly thetans" are.  Now my normal pop-ups are replaced with Scientology.

Keeping a Brick alive, well and upright certainly does take some sort of "---ology", a form of kult-like deference to the gods of spline lube.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I consulted google about what "moly thetans" are.  Now my normal pop-ups are replaced with Scientology.

You have my sincerest sympathies.

[Laitch]

You have my sincerest sympathies.

Amen.

[jiggseob]

Dodging my latest barrage of scientology popups... 

Attached is a photo of the circlip that was inside the u-joint of the driveshaft.  The clip wasn't in the groove, and was just kinda angle-stuck inside the splines.  So I'm pretty sure it wasn't holding, so the driveshaft was free-floating.  The description of the part I'm looking at is "spring clip".  My question for those more experienced than me is if this spring clip appears to be broken, is it the correct length, is it more of a C-clip than a circlip?  I do note that the ends of the clip to not appear to be randomly broken, both ends seem to come to a similar point.

Anyways, its off to the dealer to get a new clip.  Hopefully the clip is not like $50... otherwise if mine isn't missing chunks I will be tempted to bend it wider to hold the interior of the groove more firmly.

I'm thinking in terms of the spring circlip that is often used in cars, to hold the inside end of a fwd cv-driveshaft into the transmission flange, those circlips are usually go like 355 degrees around the shaft.  This circlip in the k-bike might be 225 degrees.

[jiggseob]

I looked around for a parts diagram of the driveshaft and swingarm, found the one below.

Item #14, just hanging about in mid-air with a vertical axis orientation, seems to be close to the right location, and I found no other circlip like it, So I think this is it.

A closer picture, with the parts description, indeed shows a circlip that goes maybe 15 degrees shy of the full 360 degrees, much more than the C-clip I found inside my driveshaft.  So mine indeed seems to be broken.  So even if a normal price is $12, converted to Canadian pesos $55, I'm going to have to buy it.

[Scott_]

Well the orientation in the image is misleading, but yes that ring would be the one that should be in the output shaft groove and "secure" the drive shaft in place.