Author Topic: Speedometer intermittent  (Read 6684 times)

Offline The Mighty Gryphon

  • Administrator
  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 6843
Re: Speedometer intermittent
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2020, 09:48:10 AM »
Great news!  Thanks for the update.
  • In my garage in Marilla, NY
  • '91K100RS White/Blue
Current:
'91 K100RS16V "Moby Brick Too"

Past:
'94 K75RT "Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS"
'92 K100RS16V "Moby Brick" (RIP, deceased in a vehicular assault)
'94 K75S Special Edition Dakar Yellow "Cheetos"
'89 K100RS Special Edition "Special Ed"

Offline daveson

  • ^ Quintessential Motobricker
  • Posts: 1268
Re: Speedometer intermittent
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2020, 11:01:00 AM »
 Good one. A photo would be good if you could.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline TommyT

  • New Brick Owner
  • ^ Proficient Motobricker
  • Posts: 218
Re: Speedometer intermittent
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2020, 01:58:15 PM »
Wow what a friend, I want one like him. I got three flaky flasher units I love to have him fix (for free), ha!
  • Olive NY
  • 1990 K75RT (RS), 1991 K100 16V

Offline suzuki12

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 11
Re: Speedometer intermittent
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2020, 06:34:39 PM »
The speedometer is repaired and working perfectly. My friend replaced a capacitor which can be seen on the motometer board near the center. It's green in colour and has value of 4.7uF 6.3V.  Sorry but I forgot to take a photo but a full write up is coming what was done and how he diagnosed the problem.

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=8017.0

If you look at the 4th photo in the string you will see the motometer. You can see the green capacitor near the center which was replaced.
  • Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
  • 1986 k75

Offline suzuki12

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 11
Re: Speedometer intermittent
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2020, 09:04:57 AM »
Failure description:  As the speed of the rear wheel reached 80km/h the speedometer would suddenly display 0 km/h. 
 
Probing the signal from the rear hub sensor with an oscilloscope showed a signal that increased in frequency as the speed of the rear wheel increased.  There was no sudden dropout at 80km/h (~120Hz).  We did note that the signal amplitude was only around 300mV p-p.

Tracing the signal up to the speedometer head, we noted that the sensor fed into the "Moto Meter" board, via the BE pin.  Measuring at this location confirmed the same 300mVp-p signals, which would increase in frequency as the speed of the wheel increased.  No cut outs at this point.

Probing the Output  of the Moto Meter board (BA pin), saw a very large scale clean signal (at least 5V p-p, didn't actually note the exact voltage).  However, at 80km/h (~120Hz) this signal started to stutter and then completely quit.  It would return when the speed decreased below 80km/h.

The Moto Meter board utilizes a dual op-amp LM2904N chip.  After a bit of probing and measurement, view the approximate schematic in  the next post.

The first stage is configured as a comparator.  Every time the BE input signal swings  greater than 0V, the first op amp outputs a high amplitude signal.  Note however, that the input signal is first passed through a Low Pass Filter (LPF) before reaching the + input of the op amp.  (The LPF is the series resistor and capacitor to ground.)  A capacitor acts as a short circuit to ground as the frequency increases. The suspicion here is that as the frequency increases, the LPF is filtering too much of our already small signal from the rear hub away, and at some point, the comparator no longer sees it.  The 5k / 4.7uF combination makes for a 6Hz cut-off frequency, which seems very low considering that the hub sensor is sending a frequency around 150Hz at 100km/h.

Suspecting that perhaps the hub sensor normally outputs more than 300mVp-p, or perhaps the 4.7uF cap is starting to go bad.  So, removed the cap and replaced it with a 0.5uF ceramic capacitor (what we had laying around). See photo in next post.

Bench tested with a home made signal generator (using a ESP32 micropython board, that's a whole other story!) injected 300mVp-p on the bench at various frequencies.  Recreated the original failure with the original cap (LPF output dropped to 16mVp-p at 300Hz).  Confirmed that with the new capacitor value the LPF output only dropped to 45mVp-p at 300Hz.  More importantly, the output of the Moto Board on the BA pin remained strong and active the entire time.  300Hz is around 200km/h, so this seemed like more than enough operation range as a fix.

Gave the circuit  and speedometer back to Suzuki12.  And he confirmed that it fixed the problem!  So, this was either a bad cap, or a beginning-to-fail rear hub sensor that we are squeezing a little more life out of with the lower capacitor value
  • Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
  • 1986 k75

Offline suzuki12

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 11
Re: Speedometer intermittent
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2020, 09:27:51 AM »

* speedometer 1.jpg (47.71 kB . 590x576 - viewed 342 times)
* speedometer 2.jpg (44.03 kB . 768x576 - viewed 327 times)
  • Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
  • 1986 k75

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