Author Topic: Another engine rattle really bad noise (Read 22993 times)

Chri5 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 24, 2019, 05:55:37 PM »

After another sunny days poking around looked at the drive dog and it doesn't look worn or damaged so took the transmission off to investigate a bit more with the intention to have a look at the gearing behind the bell housing for the alternator and found the clutch pressure plate has broken on one of the outer silver coloured metal bands which has proceeded to mince the inside of the bell housing here are some pics

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Laitch · « **Reply #26 on:** March 24, 2019, 08:20:41 PM »

Quote from: Chri5 on March 24, 2019, 05:55:37 PM

After another sunny days poking around . . .

Thanks for the update and photos. That's an uncommon occurrence but should be relatively straight-forward to repair after you've thoroughly checked the other components for damage.

Chaos · « **Reply #27 on:** March 25, 2019, 12:57:13 AM »

hmmm, that explains all the noise.

daveson · « **Reply #28 on:** March 25, 2019, 03:17:19 AM »

Bonus, good result.

Be careful not to lose the original balance paint marks when you clean the parts.

Laitch · « **Reply #29 on:** March 25, 2019, 06:51:46 AM »

Quote from: daveson on March 25, 2019, 03:17:19 AM

Be careful not to lose the original balance paint marks when you clean the parts.

One component of the balanced assembly—the pressure plate—must be replaced so balance has already been lost. It's likely the entire clutchpack and other small parts should also be replaced after being in that shredder.

Chri5 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 25, 2019, 02:08:13 PM »

My thoughts exactly laitch ive ordered a complete clutch (used )and a bell housing my next thought it what could of caused this, could a poor adjust clutch cable do that damage as i dont know how old the cable is and i also have a stiff clutch arm on the transmission which im going to replace just in case

billday · « **Reply #31 on:** March 25, 2019, 03:11:23 PM »

Probably no need to replace the clutch arm, just disassemble it, clean it, and give it lots of sticky bearing grease when you reassemble it. When everything's buttoned back up, adjust the clutch. And don't forget to grease both barrel ends of the clutch cable -- a binding barrel end at the hand lever is a known cause of clutch cable failure.

I agree it is a strange failure -- one I've never seen nor heard of before. Perhaps a freak defect in the part, not "caused" by anything in particular?

Laitch · « **Reply #32 on:** March 25, 2019, 04:19:48 PM »

Quote from: billday on March 25, 2019, 03:11:23 PM

I agree it is a strange failure -- one I've never seen nor heard of before. Perhaps a freak defect in the part, not "caused" by anything in particular?

Maybe the clutch pack was too new because, as the song tells us, only the good die young. In this case though, it could be one or more of the clutch cover bolts might have backed out or sheared then a spring or springs fractured from vibration on the locating pins and the whole interior became a bingo cage of shrapnel.

Chri5 will no doubt expand his pictorial review of the crime scene.

Chri5 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 06, 2019, 10:13:04 AM »

So with more of the mystical sunshine out i am nearly back on road just waiting my second set of clutch bolts after first reassembly didnt go to plan and i thought i must of bent the transmission input pin as the gearbox just wouldn't fit but the frame was just out slightly so i slackend it all off and reinstalled the transmission but i only discovered this after i took it all apart again
after examination of the old clutch the only thing i found was the inner plate of the spring diaphram had a little play but my replacement part was the same so i assume that is normal the pins on the clutch cover plate were stright and in tacked and the bolt where all tight on disassembly so freak part defect is all i can come up with but i took the opportunity to give that motor its first deep clean in what i can olny guess in at least a decade maybe 2 and try put the colour scheme im planning for the block on the bell housing

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billday · « **Reply #34 on:** April 06, 2019, 12:45:08 PM »

Respect for all the work you've done. Try to keep your swingarm supported, so as not to tear the rubber boot.

Laitch · « **Reply #35 on:** April 06, 2019, 01:12:40 PM »

Quote from: Chri5 on April 06, 2019, 10:13:04 AM

. . . i thought i must of bent the transmission input pin as the gearbox just wouldn't fit but the frame was just out slightly so i slackend it all off and reinstalled the transmission but i only discovered this after i took it all apart again

Does the engine's intermediate housing have two alignment dowels installed? Their installation has been recommended to obviate misalignment during reassembly.

daveson · « **Reply #36 on:** April 06, 2019, 03:40:56 PM »

Did you use a clutch alignment tool?

If not you may need a helper to pull the clutch lever in, but only if needed (or clutch arm if off the bike) while you push the gearbox on. Or install the clutch horizontally to help keep everything concentric.

Push the gearbox fully home before installing the bolts. Use some longer bolts with the heads cut off to help guide you.

Check if the push rod is bent.

Keep the clutch arm supported too, so as not to tear the push rod boot. If torn it is best to replace it now.

Chri5 · « **Reply #37 on:** April 07, 2019, 02:06:50 PM »

Laitch yeah the dowls where in place i did get it back together after slacking the frame blots on right it was out of alightment on the dowls by just a fraction and wouldnt slide on like it has previously so i knew something was a miss

Daveson yes i used the clutch alginment tool i also had a check of the push rod with a dial gauge on the side of the tip a spinning the rod just to be sure and its straight

As soon the bolt on the frame where slacken it slight stright on it was the right hand frame mount on the gearbox just pushing ever so slightly

Once my new bolts arrive for the clutch and going to put the gearbox on propperly with its stand then jack the front of the engine so the bike it off the ground except for the stand and jack and loosen the frame again then redo all the bolts for the frame so engine and gearbox completed this is to try and make sure the frame is sitting propperly on the complete set up unless any one has another way to makesure the frame is on propperly

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daveson · « **Reply #38 on:** April 07, 2019, 05:42:02 PM »

Are you using a workshop manual to help you, if so which one? There is one on this site, I have it as a book, but I'm not home to read it. It goes into great detail about drive train to frame bolts. I think it has 2V in the title and a reference to flying brick at the bottom of the pages in tiny writing.

Is the problem that the frame and gearbox holes aren't concentric, or is it that there is a gap that closes as you tighten the bolt?

Check the frame to be sure it is an RS model. It has spacers (from memory) and the bolts and spacers must be installed and tightened in a specific sequence for an RS.

Good luck with it.

Chri5 · « **Reply #39 on:** April 07, 2019, 05:58:56 PM »

Im using the haynes manual the right hand gearbox frame mount is what was giving me the trouble just pushing the gearbox to the left and preventing the dowel from aligning thats why im planning to reinstall the gearbox to the engine and then loosening the frame with the bike off the ground so it can sit on the engine without the front wheel or the support i have under the tail of frame interfering with the frames position when im torquing up the frame you are correct about a frame shim which is on the left frame engine mount i will double check the manual for the sequence to make sure i got it right

daveson · « **Reply #40 on:** April 07, 2019, 06:07:52 PM »

Goodo, engine to gearbox bolts first.

I think the other manual goes into more detail. Maybe your tightening sequence is wrong. Look for signs of a drop, especially a right hand drop.

Be good to see a photo of it when done.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #41 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:34:20 PM »

"As soon the bolt on the frame where slacken it slight stright on it was the right hand frame mount on the gearbox just pushing ever so slightly"

???????????????????

Dude, you gotta slow down and check what you are writing. A period here and there wouldn't hurt either. I'd like to help, but your writing is impenetrable.

daveson · « **Reply #42 on:** April 07, 2019, 08:57:54 PM »

I think he is writing with a local English accent, it's probably not Cockney, but I like to think it is. I think he is saying when he removes the frame bolt the gearbox "slides straight"on. To me it's a no no to do frame bolts before gear box bolts, but less effort holding the gearbox I spose.

Laitch · « **Reply #43 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:07:27 PM »

Quote from: Chri5 on April 07, 2019, 02:06:50 PM

the dowls where in place i did get it back together after slacking the frame blots on right it was out of alightment on the dowls by just a fraction and wouldnt slide on like it has previously so i knew something was a miss

The dowels were designed to prevent misalignment. The idea is that when they are engaged into the corresponding hole in the transmission misalignment of the transmission with the intermediate housing is not possible, unless the dowels are damaged.

What might have been misaligned was the clutch pack. Check Chris Harris's video showing alignment procedure using the alignment tool. It's part of the spline lube video series.

To echo Gryph's query, frame mounts shouldn't be impeding the installation of the transmission to the engine. It's difficult to understand your description. A photo or two is needed to clarify the problem.

Filmcamera · « **Reply #44 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:29:05 PM »

I would also chek if the clutch is properly centered, if it is out of whack a bit it can make getting the transmission back on a nightmare

Laitch · « **Reply #45 on:** April 07, 2019, 09:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Chri5 on April 07, 2019, 05:58:56 PM

. . . you are correct about a frame shim which is on the left frame engine mount i will double check the manual for the sequence to make sure i got it right

Are you aware that there is a specific sequence for installing and tightening bolts mounting the frame to the engine?

daveson · « **Reply #46 on:** April 07, 2019, 10:59:16 PM »

The right rear bolt that is causing you grief, is the first frame bolt that should be tightened. Haynes describes a very different, and vague, sequence. I wouldn't trust it as a sequence guide.

Laitch · « **Reply #47 on:** April 08, 2019, 03:22:31 AM »

Quote from: Chri5 on April 07, 2019, 05:58:56 PM

Im using the haynes manual . . .

I use Clymer's, Haynes, and the BMW k100/k75 2V service manual that is downloadable from this site. The BMW manual is the source of the attached diagrams. If a procedure is unclear or unconfirmed, consult another source, including experienced members of the forum. How the K100RS 2V frame is tightened depends upon how the fuel tank is attached.

Chri5 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 08, 2019, 12:43:57 PM »

I apologize for my crap English im just a bit of a meff when it comes to writing down what i think i do re-read what i type but i think a Chinese translator would do better

Laitch · « **Reply #49 on:** April 08, 2019, 02:42:09 PM »

Quote from: Chri5 on April 08, 2019, 12:43:57 PM

. . . im just a bit of a meff . . .

Thanks for introducing this Liverpudlian term to some of us outlanders. :2thumbup:

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Author Topic: Another engine rattle really bad noise (Read 22993 times)