This Is The EPIC Soggs 92K75 MAGA Thread

[szabgab]

Starting at Reply #108, the coolant temperature sensor discussion was started. Soggz seemed to have tested it with reference to rbm's document, then indicated it passed inspection.

OH,  OK,  sorry,  this is such a long thread 338 and counting,  I must have missed that...  Nevermind,  skip that...

BTW,  when you have pulled the injectors,  was the surrounding area clean? Because it is rather easy to drop some debris in the hole,  that can throw the spanner in the works rather literally

[Soggz]

OH,  OK,  sorry,  this is such a long thread 338 and counting,  I must have missed that...  Nevermind,  skip that...

BTW,  when you have pulled the injectors,  was the surrounding area clean? Because it is rather easy to drop some debris in the hole,  that can throw the spanner in the works rather literally

yes mate, all cleaned up.

[Soggz]

So...looking for leaks now...

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Lets's briefly review where we are right now.  The injectors are clean and the MAF appears to be working properly.  there is good spark.  Something is not right about the #3 air inlet and the engine still runs like crap.

This thread is now one of the longest in the history of Motobrick.  To go back and see what all has been done and seen so far is rather intimidating.  Perhaps as a public service you could list all the stuff you have checked and/or replaced so far.  Things like the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator.  Etc.

One thing I wonder about is the plug wires, specifically for the #2 and #3 cylinders.  When they are reversed the engine will start and run, but like crap.  This is something that has happened in the past on several other bikes.  It happens because the #3 lead is longer than the #2 so it can be folded back.  A new owner sees this and gets the wires reversed and the bike runs like shit.  This may be your problem.                 

[Laitch]

from the center stand... turn the key on and crank the engine... using a feeler gauge to adjust the points... set the dwell and tighten the points... crank it again to be sure the dwell angle is still correct... then rotate you halll sensor to set your timing...  put 4 bottles of techron in there with tank of pure gas... ride it at high revvs for 200 miles...

It's good to read a post that isn't pointless.

[Soggz]

Lets's briefly review where we are right now.  The injectors are clean and the MAF appears to be working properly.  there is good spark.  Something is not right about the #3 air inlet and the engine still runs like crap.

This thread is now one of the longest in the history of Motobrick.  To go back and see what all has been done and seen so far is rather intimidating.  Perhaps as a public service you could list all the stuff you have checked and/or replaced so far.  Things like the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator.  Etc.

One thing I wonder about is the plug wires, specifically for the #2 and #3 cylinders.  When they are reversed the engine will start and run, but like crap.  This is something that has happened in the past on several other bikes.  It happens because the #3 lead is longer than the #2 so it can be folded back.  A new owner sees this and gets the wires reversed and the bike runs like shit.  This may be your problem.                 

Unfortunatly,the leads are in the right place. The longest lead is on no.3,shortest,no 2,and middle length lead,no 1, but yes, I can see how this would confuse some people. The pump is new,as is the strainer on it,as are the inner tank pipes with no leaks.
The injectors have been sent off and cleaned and are all within 2.3%of each other on the flow rate chart. The pump pumps as it should, as I took the pipe off of the fuel bar and fired it into a can.
The rubber pump holder is new, too,so no contamination. The Sparks are blue and fat,
Havnt changed the regulator as I'm guessing it's working,as fuel is being fired out pretty well. The plugs are new,the crank breather z pipe appears not to leak and the MAF seems ok.Its a pig to start,the choke dosnt really work until the bikes warm,then it goes to 2000 reeves,half open,4000 revs fully open. I'm using new clean fuel.I can only guess an air leak,not checked the valves yet.

[Soggz]

greetings...

from the center stand... turn the key on and crank the engine... using a feeler gauge to adjust the points... set the dwell and tighten the points... crank it again to be sure the dwell angle is still correct... then rotate you halll sensor to set your timing...  put 4 bottles of techron in there with tank of pure gas... ride it at high revvs for 200 miles...

j o

you don't think I should check for air leaks then?, before I start adjusting stuff that was probably adjusted to the right spec 12 years ago before it was laid up?

[Soggz]

It's good to read a post that isn't pointless.

Be nice to read one that isn't sarcastic...

[bocutter Ed]

you don't think I should check for air leaks then?, before I start adjusting stuff that was probably adjusted to the right spec 12 years ago before it was laid up?

Umm ... you are replying to a post that should have been pointless

[Soggz]

Umm ... you are replying to a post that should have been pointless

probably why this thread is so long... like I said, I know nothing about fuel injection, only what I’m learning on here. If people want to take the p£ss, then fine!
Not everyone is helpful, are they..,

[Laitch]

Be nice to read one that isn't sarcastic...

Read rbm's and Gryph's then, and ignore this one.

you don't think I should check for air leaks then?,

My understanding was that you checked each of the throttle body manifolds for leaks using carb cleaner or something similarly volatile while the engine was running. Has that been done? If not, that should be next.

The choke is actually a throttle speed actuator. It doesn't enrich the fuel mixture like the choke on a CBX. Check its linkage down at the throttle bodies. Have you inspected the throttle linkage to determine if it is obstructed?

The valve clearances should be checked, too. Their status will give a better idea of the engine's ability for throttle body balancing.

[Soggz]

Read rbm's and Gryph's then, and ignore this one.
My understanding was that you checked each of the throttle body manifolds for leaks using carb cleaner or something similarly volatile while the engine was running. Has that been done? If not, that should be next.

The choke is actually a throttle speed actuator. It doesn't enrich the fuel mixture like the choke on a CBX. Check its linkage down at the throttle bodies. Have you inspected the throttle linkage to determine if it is obstructed?

The valve clearances should be checked, too. Their status will give a better idea of the engine's ability for throttle body balancing.

Hi.
I’ve checked the throttle , engine end, while operating it, handlebar end. Seems fine, not snagging and returns ok, same with the fake choke.Im going to check the clearances tommorow if I get a chance,as I have to take my work van in for it’s yearly mot test in the morning.
(I wish I did have a CBX...).lol!

[Laitch]

I’ve checked the throttle , engine end, while operating it, handlebar end. Seems fine, not snagging and returns ok, same with the fake choke.Im going to check the clearances tommorow

Did you inspect the throttle body manifolds for leaks? Did you remove them and look for separation and decay of the rubber?

We haven't needed to delve into the intricacies of fuel injection yet. We're still at basic fuel, air and spark mechanics. The injection system on these motos usually is reliable. Your moto has been neglected; cleaning and inspecting is the largest task. Maybe there is a fault in the injection control system but bringing the rest of the engine's systems to good condition will make that diagnosis easier.

The fuel pressure regulator's vacuum hose should be detached and checked for fuel intrusion.

[daveson]

+1 with vacuum hose
Your bike stalls when contact sprayed to cylinder three intake.

A quick test:
Remove vacuum hose from front of intake and plug ends. If now unaffected by contact spray your vacuum hose is leaking.
If there are signs of fuel in the vacuum hose, the regulator is leaking too.
By the way I'll try your method of diagonal drive shaft insertion, sounds good, a little kinky actually.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Sprayed contact cleaner at no.3 carcuss,and it stalled.

What kind of contact cleaner did you use?  Was it ELECTRICAL contact cleaner?  That stuff has NON-FLAMMABLE solvents so it can be used on live circuits.  If that is what you used, I am not surprised that the engine died.

What you need to use is Carburetor cleaner or ether starting spray.  It seems to me that it's pretty obvious you have a vacuum leak somewhere.  The confusing results with the engine dying instead of the usual running smoother is probably the result of using an incorrect material for the spray.  The most important thing to do now is to very carefully inspect the parts of the #3 air intake both above and below the throttle body.  If it was my bike I would do that BEFORE I did the valves.  That vacuum leak is the most important thing you need to fix.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

One of the shortcomings of the Jetronic engine management system is that there is a lot of distance and parts where a leak can occur between the MAF and the intake valves in the cylinder head.  All that stuff needs to be in good condition and assembled correctly or the engine will not run properly because it doesn't get a correct fuel/air mixture. 

You have a bike with a vacuum leak that has upset the air/fuel mixture.  To add insult to injury, it's quite possible the the previous owner has screwed up some of the throttle body settings to compensate.  The good  news is that the basic engine is mechanically sound so no heavy disassembly is needed.  If you work with us, you have an excellent chance of getting your bike running like it should.

[Soggz]

Did you inspect the throttle body manifolds for leaks? Did you remove them and look for separation and decay of the rubber?

We haven't needed to delve into the intricacies of fuel injection yet. We're still at basic fuel, air and spark mechanics. The injection system on these motos usually is reliable. Your moto has been neglected; cleaning and inspecting is the largest task. Maybe there is a fault in the injection control system but bringing the rest of the engine's systems to good condition will make that diagnosis easier.

The fuel pressure regulator's vacuum hose should be detached and checked for fuel intrusion.

Hi, I’m sure the fuel pressure regulator is working, by the amount of fuel that is being fired out.(?)

[Soggz]

What kind of contact cleaner did you use?  Was it ELECTRICAL contact cleaner?  That stuff has NON-FLAMMABLE solvents so it can be used on live circuits.  If that is what you used, I am not surprised that the engine died.

What you need to use is Carburetor cleaner or ether starting spray.  It seems to me that it's pretty obvious you have a vacuum leak somewhere.  The confusing results with the engine dying instead of the usual running smoother is probably the result of using an incorrect material for the spray.  The most important thing to do now is to very carefully inspect the parts of the #3 air intake both above and below the throttle body.  If it was my bike I would do that BEFORE I did the valves.  That vacuum leak is the most important thing you need to fix.

ah, ok. I have some stuff called ‘easy start’ which is normally sprayed into the air box, I will try that.

[szabgab]

ah, ok. I have some stuff called ‘easy start’ which is normally sprayed into the air box, I will try that.

Good plan.  Use a straw to localise the spray, no point in hosing the area down,  also have a fire extinguisher handy,  unless you want to risk to burn the bike and the garage down.  This is a real possibility,  just check other threads on this theme.

Pressure regulator wise -  having a good stream of fuel at the fuel rail. is. not telling you much about the regulator itself,  check if you have a steady stream back to the tank.  Also to assess it's correct operation,  you need to measure the fuel pressure and it should read 2.5Bars, if I remember correctly

[Soggz]

Good plan.  Use a straw to localise the spray, no point in hosing the area down,  also have a fire extinguisher handy,  unless you want to risk to burn the bike and the garage down.  This is a real possibility,  just check other threads on this theme.

Pressure regulator wise -  having a good stream of fuel at the fuel rail. is. not telling you much about the regulator itself,  check if you have a steady stream back to the tank.  Also to assess it's correct operation,  you need to measure the fuel pressure and it should read 2.5Bars, if I remember correctly

Hi. What would I measure it with? And how?

[Soggz]

New splines came today.

[Soggz]

Also, when I ordered it, I asked for the moly spine line. Is this the right stuff they sent me? I thought it was black. However, the stuff on the gearbox end of the shaft was white when I took it out...

[DavidATL]

no, sorry.

This is a picture of GD-525 , 30% moly, an aftermarket moly lube that's out of production. Whichever moly grease you use should look substantially like this.


IMG_3506.jpg (92.42 kB . 640x480 - viewed 415 times)

[DavidATL]

New splines came today.

Screen Shot 2019-01-22 at 7.13.12 AM .png (18.48 kB . 122x124 - viewed 260 times)

[Filmcamera]

I had (actually still have every now and then) a bad or loose connection on one of the injector wires in the harness.  When it went bad it would cause the engine to run on three cylinders similar to yours running on two.  A little wiggling on the wiring would make it kick back into life again.  It sill does it now and then and I have now got the wiggle down to a fine art, I can lean down while still on the gas and give the offending cable a tweak and presto the cylinder comes back to life.


Maybe you should check the continuity of the wiring in your harness as well.