Turn Signal Issue

[rdivy725]

Greets!

Someone said owning a K-bike is like dating a woman. You have to continually work on the relationship. So we lucked out here and had a 50 degree day and I took the Brick out. This happened several weeks ago as I turned into my driveway, but when I checked it today it worked properly in the garage, and then stopped when I needed it! When actuating both Turn signals, both illuminate. If I let off the switch, they stop blinking. If I hold either left or right switch (and strangely, if I hold the cancel switch by itself) both illuminate and then start flashing. As soon as I let off any switch, they stop working. The hazard switch doesn't work most of the time, but if I cycle the switch ten times or so , they may come on. When I turn the hazard switch off, the right turn signal may stay on flashing. Pulled the TS relay, checked pins and connections, all look good. I suspect the relay...

On top of that the speedo stopped working today...woohoo...I have seen enough posts here to investigate that one on my own!

I have determined that I will have to set aside a monthly allowance for the Brick. I already winterized the Trumpet so any half decent days until Spring will have to be on this one!
 

[rdivy725]

greetings..

does it miss when you are manupilating the switches...

j o

It does not seem to miss when I manipulate the switches

[Laitch]

Someone said owning a K-bike is like dating a woman. You have to continually work on the relationship.

For many of the members here, it's like dating somebody with one foot in the grave, expecting her to go out dancing with you then being surprised that you need to visit her in the ICU instead.

[beemuker]

I have an similar intermittent issue.For me the Next thing to try  is cleaning the starter brushes. bumping it backwads also may help, but it didn't for me.

[rdivy725]

For many of the members here, it's like dating somebody with one foot in the grave, expecting her to go out dancing with you then being surprised that you need to visit her in the ICU instead.

She's not on life support, yet. So little nuances and things that "happen" I can deal with. I've bought her and I am committed to keeping her going. And when she dances, she dances the Mamba! So much fun to ride.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Have you removed the tank and gone through ALL the electrical connections there and at the turn signals and tail light including the system grounds on the frame backbone and the transmission below the coils?  You need to clean everything with DeoxIt.  All the connections are nearly 30 years old and subject to a bit of internal corrosion.

While you are doing that look at as much of the wiring as possible, checking for worn insulation and broken wires.  Make sure to look at and clean the switches themselves as well. 

Trying to trouble shoot a problem like yours without doing the above first makes it about twice as hard.

[rdivy725]

Have you removed the tank and gone through ALL the electrical connections there and at the turn signals and tail light including the system grounds on the frame backbone and the transmission below the coils?  You need to clean everything with DeoxIt.  All the connections are nearly 30 years old and subject to a bit of internal corrosion.

While you are doing that look at as much of the wiring as possible, checking for worn insulation and broken wires.  Make sure to look at and clean the switches themselves as well. 

Trying to trouble shoot a problem like yours without doing the above first makes it about twice as hard.

Great points Gryphon. It would be a good idea for me to go through ALL the connectors and grounds, not only for this issue, but for any potential future issues. Thanks for the tip.

The ground on below the coils was an easy check. I was not aware of grounds on the rear frame.

I did read the section about disassembling the switches and cleaning...thats on the list.

Another tidbit, when you actuate the left TS paddle you get an audible "click", not so with the right.

Looks like the fuel tank is coming off, again!
 
 Question, what is the best Deoxit to use? And there is the pro dielectric group and the not so fond of dielectric.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Not on the rear frame, but on the backbone under the tank on the left side.  Look for a cluster of brown wires.  Polish up each lug and put them all back.

This is the stuff I use. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hosa-D5S-6-Caig-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner-5-Spray-5-Oz/283265502744?hash=item41f3f08e18:g:6vIAAOSwIAJb8Xo1:rk:1:pf:0

As far as dielectric grease, I use a Dow Corning product that is used in the aerospace industry.  I figure if it's okay for an airplane that can fall out of the sky, it can't mess up my bike too much.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/DOW-CORNING-4-DC4-Silicone-Electrical-Insulating-Compound-Lubricant-Grease-1oz/270696689157?hash=item3f06c7ae05:g:3GwAAMXQOT5Q97Pg:rk:4:pf:0

Use it very sparingly, and avoid getting it on solder joints that may need to be resoldered.  It will prevent the solder from bonding.  I have only used about two teaspoons on three bikes.

[rdivy725]

Greetings All,

We have 50-60 degree weather this week and I am working from home! Time to fix the two nagging issues: first is this one with the turn signal. I posted late fall with a video of what it was doing...today I removed the cluster to look at a pesky interm speedo and started checking the T/S. Here is what I found on the back of the hazard switch and it looks like it might be corrosion causing the circuit issues. Going to dig the meter out and check.

[rdivy725]

Latest update. Checked for a signal to the TS module/relay. No signal from either switch. Pulled both switch connectors under the tank ,no power on any terminal going to the left multifunction switch, have power on 1 circuit to the right (suspect for starter switch). BMW schematics suck. Still trying to figure this beast out. The pinout diagram on the forum for the TS module was a godsend!
More exploratory tomorrow!

[Laitch]

More exploratory tomorrow!

Read this thread entirely. The starter can be a source of problems like this.

[rbm]

It might help you to refer to the interactive electrical diagrams that Bert put together over on K100-forum. 

http://www.kforum-tech.com/Downloads/electrical/diagrams/interactive_diagrams.htm

There are a series of buttons at the top of the page which, when pressed, will highlight JUST the wiring involved with that function.  For example, there is a flasher button.  When you press it, it displays all the wiring that gets used to run the flashers.  This should simplify your diagnosis.

The "signal" that comes from the turn signal switches is ground. So, make sure you are testing properly.  Use continuity feature on your multimeter.  Test between the switch output and frame ground.

[rdivy725]

It might help you to refer to the interactive electrical diagrams that Bert put together over on K100-forum. 

http://www.kforum-tech.com/Downloads/electrical/diagrams/interactive_diagrams.htm

There are a series of buttons at the top of the page which, when pressed, will highlight JUST the wiring involved with that function.  For example, there is a flasher button.  When you press it, it displays all the wiring that gets used to run the flashers.  This should simplify your diagnosis.

The "signal" that comes from the turn signal switches is ground. So, make sure you are testing properly.  Use continuity feature on your multimeter.  Test between the switch output and frame ground.

Thanks all and esp rbm...

Wrapping my mind that the signal from the switches is ground, I looked at the wiring and schematics differently. I checked for continuity at the TS relay for all the switches and it showed all were good. One thing that they all had in common when I studied the color schematics last night was the relief/load shed relay. I swapped it out with the horn relay and low and behold, everything started working again.

Im going to replace all the relays, the cheapest source so far is EME electronics at $35 (x3) a relay. I am also going to replace that nasty looking hazard switch.

It was a pain, but know I now every connector/ground on my K. Every connection has been cleaned and deoxit-fied. I also learned a little bit more about electrical diagnosis.

Thanks again all!