Author Topic: "Revive" (1985 K100 Street Scrambler Build, not a Cafe Racer)  (Read 443999 times)

Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #150 on: June 22, 2018, 03:32:27 PM »
Found this:





Fixed it, still no start.
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  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #151 on: June 22, 2018, 03:34:43 PM »
Pull the #6 fuse which supplies power to the fuel pump or alternatively disconnect the 4 pin connector to the pump. Try and start with the residual fuel that is in the combustion chamber. The engine should start, as the engine dies push the fuse back in or reconnect the 4 pin connector. A bit of throttle manipulation will be required to keep it running, it is easier with two people. If it does try to start try cleaning the connection to the temperature sensor in the stand pipe. If cleaning does not work test the values of the sensor.
Regards Martin.

Perfect, thanks Martin. I’ll go find a second pair of hands.
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #152 on: June 22, 2018, 04:36:44 PM »
Pull the #6 fuse which supplies power to the fuel pump or alternatively disconnect the 4 pin connector to the pump. Try and start with the residual fuel that is in the combustion chamber. The engine should start, as the engine dies push the fuse back in or reconnect the 4 pin connector. A bit of throttle manipulation will be required to keep it running, it is easier with two people. If it does try to start try cleaning the connection to the temperature sensor in the stand pipe. If cleaning does not work test the values of the sensor.
Regards Martin.

It didn’t work, Martin. No change at all.
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Offline Inge K.

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #153 on: June 22, 2018, 05:00:41 PM »
That doesn't look like a SAE 30R10 hose (submersible), is it?
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #154 on: June 22, 2018, 05:11:27 PM »
That doesn't look like a SAE 30R10 hose (submersible), is it?

Hi Inge. It was. It’s been changed out now though.
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Offline rbm

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #155 on: June 22, 2018, 07:07:04 PM »
Have you replaced the fuel filter as part of your refurbishment?  If so, did you install it in the correct direction, with the arrow pointing in the direction of fuel flow?

It's possible the plugs are fouled if they are excessively wet.  Are they gapped properly?

Your video sounds like the fuelling is weak when the engine does catch.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #156 on: June 23, 2018, 03:44:50 AM »
Have you replaced the fuel filter as part of your refurbishment?  If so, did you install it in the correct direction, with the arrow pointing in the direction of fuel flow?

It's possible the plugs are fouled if they are excessively wet.  Are they gapped properly?

Your video sounds like the fuelling is weak when the engine does catch.

Hi Robert. I suspect a fuelling issue also. I did replace the filter, It has been installed flow directionally. The new Bosch plugs are gapped correctly, they may very well be fouled, #4 was exceccively wet and black/sooty looking. I’m going to reinstall the old NGKs this morning and see what happens.

Also my coil packs are wired up differently to what the Clymer details 2x runs of Black/Red on the #2/3 Bank. My harness has 2x runs of green yellow so were returned that way (as it was on the bike prior to strip down) I believe that diagram may be incorrect?



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  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Inge K.

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #157 on: June 23, 2018, 05:13:50 AM »
#4 was exceccively wet and black/sooty looking.

Check Your FPR, disconnect the vacuum hose and see if comes fuel out.....then you need a new one.


My harness has 2x runs of green yellow so was returned that way (as it was on the bike prior to strip down) I believe that diagram may be incorrect?

The diagram is incorrect, you have it right wired.
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Offline Enfield

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #158 on: June 23, 2018, 06:07:14 AM »
When I assembled mine I messed up the fuel Lines... resulted in no start, and caused a fuel Line in the tank to burst!! Is your fpr connected the right Way..
 Not saying that you did the same... but I managed to buy a new fpr and ignition leads before I found out 🤥.
Regards
Chr


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Offline Enfield

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #159 on: June 23, 2018, 06:15:10 AM »
Did not see first video... probably not fuel Lines as you must have some fuel coming through!


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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #160 on: June 23, 2018, 07:45:58 AM »
I retrieved the ICU and FICU from the other bike and started a process of elimination with the help of a K owner. I pulled the rail with the injectors attached and turned over to check for injection, got nothing. Swapped the Fuel Injection Control Unit, turned over, nothing. Swapped the Ignition Control Unit, turned over and got injection at numbers 2, 3 & 4 but not 1. Swapped it out for another, turned over and all 4 were discharging.

Put the plugs back in, fuel rail back on, tank down and went for start. It appears the ICU going from bike to shelve for three months then back to bike decided it would break.





She ran perfectly for 10 minutes, I was waiting for the fan to kick in and she suddenly cut out. Now she won’t re-start.
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Offline Laitch

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #161 on: June 23, 2018, 09:16:35 AM »
She ran perfectly for 10 minutes, I was waiting for the fan to kick in and she suddenly cut out. Now she won’t re-start.
This will remedied by the discovery of a minor glitch—poor or miss-routed wire connection, ignition switch, kill switch, FPR problem if you haven't checked that, fuel hose, something simple, no doubt.

Do you have an OE pump or a Sino-substitute? How is it mounted? I haven't reviewed this epic thread to find out.

What I'm here to say though, is that your two-tone treatment of the tank with the lower blacked-out to align with the frame was a brilliant idea!  :2thumbup:
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #162 on: June 23, 2018, 12:21:01 PM »
This will remedied by the discovery of a minor glitch—poor or miss-routed wire connection, ignition switch, kill switch, FPR problem if you haven't checked that, fuel hose, something simple, no doubt.

Do you have an OE pump or a Sino-substitute? How is it mounted? I haven't reviewed this epic thread to find out.

What I'm here to say though, is that your two-tone treatment of the tank with the lower blacked-out to align with the frame was a brilliant idea!  :2thumbup:

I hope so, it’s strange, she was sitting idiling away on the lift quite happy then just cut out. What’s your best guess?

Pump is OE, mounted in its cradle as intended.

I really appreciate that, I’m glad you like it. It was a shower thought one morning, trialed a few mock-ups on the computer but really didn’t know how it was going to turn out.
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #163 on: June 23, 2018, 12:29:16 PM »
To those of you who are anti Brick chopping, I hope you think I gave the bike a classic enough look, something I think these old girls warrant.

I have a few teething issues to sort, as you all know but here’s some iPhone shots for the moment. DSLR images will follow in time.

Hope you all like.













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Offline Enfield

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #164 on: June 24, 2018, 02:09:47 PM »
To those of you who are anti Brick chopping, I hope you think I gave the bike a classic enough look, something I think these old girls warrant.

I have a few teething issues to sort, as you all know but here’s some iPhone shots for the moment. DSLR images will follow in time.

Hope you all like.









Damn it looks Good [emoji1303]
Some cool details .
Regards
Christian


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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #165 on: June 24, 2018, 02:34:47 PM »
Damn it looks Good [emoji1303]
Some cool details .
Regards
Christian


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Thanks Christian. My friends are calling it a “Polished Turd”.
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  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT

Offline Laitch

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #166 on: June 25, 2018, 07:49:36 AM »
Swapped the Ignition Control Unit, turned over and got injection at numbers 2, 3 & 4 but not 1. Swapped it out for another, turned over and all 4 were discharging.

She ran perfectly for 10 minutes, I was waiting for the fan to kick in and she suddenly cut out. Now she won’t re-start.
I hope so, it’s strange, she was sitting idiling away on the lift quite happy then just cut out. What’s your best guess?
Thoroughly clean the ignition control unit plug then be certain it fits the unit snugly. There might even be a faulty wire in that plug's harness.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #167 on: June 25, 2018, 08:18:35 AM »
Thoroughly clean the ignition control unit plug then be certain it fits the unit snugly. There might even be a faulty wire in that plug's harness.

Laitch, that's probably very accurate, likely not coincidental that the bike ran after swapping the ICU's units over - the issue is likely within the plug/harness as you say. Historically, how robust are the ignition control units themselves?
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Offline Laitch

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #168 on: June 25, 2018, 08:38:23 AM »
Laitch, that's probably very accurate, likely not coincidental that the bike ran after swapping the ICU's units over - the issue is likely within the plug/harness as you say. Historically, how robust are the ignition control units themselves?
I've read a few of times about failure of a unit. They're likely sturdy units but abandonment to the elements without consistent usage might open the door to their failure. A faulty ground connection is my next choice. A bike starts up, runs then heat and vibration break the connection sooner or later.

I referred to the fuel pump mounting because if a pump slips downward far enough in its mount to hit bottom, fuel flow through the basket style pre-filter can be sufficiently constricted to cause a stall. My experience was with an intermittent stall condition that was eliminated when the pump was raised sufficiently and secured.
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #169 on: June 25, 2018, 05:02:53 PM »
I've read a few of times about failure of a unit. They're likely sturdy units but abandonment to the elements without consistent usage might open the door to their failure. A faulty ground connection is my next choice. A bike starts up, runs then heat and vibration break the connection sooner or later.

I referred to the fuel pump mounting because if a pump slips downward far enough in its mount to hit bottom, fuel flow through the basket style pre-filter can be sufficiently constricted to cause a stall. My experience was with an intermittent stall condition that was eliminated when the pump was raised sufficiently and secured.

I clinically went through all connections during the refurb and inspection of the loom, I re-soldered all that I could. Additionally I ran an extra 1mm earth from the frame earth point to battery and onto gearbox to counter-act the powdercoat.

I found a leak in my tank! :( It was in the right hand side upper part of the ‘step’ seam. It took a long time to migrate through and has blistered the paint badly overnight. I’ve siohoned the fuel, removed the tank, stripped the pump components, ordered a full seal kit and left it to evaporate off the residuals. Grrrrr.

With the MOT this Friday I had to progress the fault finding. I Jerry rigged the pump into a bucket, I made a rest out of some of the spare mesh I had from the radiator mod, this lifted it off the bottom, I then routed it in and added some juice. I pulled the plug from the Ignition Control Unit in the head and attached the old ICU and went for start whilst twisting the connection into different positions during start- this identified the plug as the problem as you suggested, Laitch! Well done! Twisting position dictated fire/no fire.
I heavily dosed both male and female connection to the ICUs with electrical cleaner and vigorously cleaned with a paint brush, left them to dry then repeated the process.
Once dry for a second time I plugged back in as standard position and started. The bike ran with no issues- she heated to 80c and the fan kicked in and out as needed repeatedly. All seemed good. I ran her up through all the gears, no complaints, a happy Brick.





There is some tuning to do with the Acewell, considering the instructions are in English, they are as difficult to make sense of as the old German BEP instructions. The rev counter/speedo is all over the shop when I rev etc etc. Unsure if this is potentially all related to the known BEP fault. I have been informed I need to purchase a new BEP and return the old and apparently they will refund me for the backlight issue.

I have 3 days left for the sealer to arrive. Repair (hopefully touch up the paint) and ride her to the inspection (MOT)

This forum, as usual, saves the day. Click the brick, please.

In regards to a bottomed our fuel pump, Laitch. I’ll look at this. Great idea to lift it slightly! Will take some measurements tomorrow.

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Offline Laitch

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #170 on: June 25, 2018, 07:18:24 PM »
I think it's too early for a happy-dance until it pounds the pavement without stalling, but a dram of Laphroaig or half a Glenn mango drizzled with lime juice would be appropriate right now, over here anyway.  :yes
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline Enfield

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #171 on: June 25, 2018, 11:15:44 PM »
Arrhh I feel your frustation about the leaking tank. Had mine welded and checked with water for leaks, then spend most of a week painting, sanding up to Grit 4000 and finally 2 component clear coat - it really looked Good!! Then after 3 days it developed a leak in lower left side [emoji25]! I Got another tank and had a Pro paint it for 200€... looked better than my week of work!
 See if you Can borrow a tank or camouflage the leak for inspection... the sealing kits I know of needs to cure for quite a while!!
Regards
Christian


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Offline Skunky

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #172 on: June 26, 2018, 04:48:43 AM »
Hi Dave - Really looking good. Unfortunately K's don't seem to like sitting idle. Once you get through these teething stages it should get better. Guantanamo Bay Overalls!  :hehehe. When the bike was running it sounds great. I'm having similar issues with mine. It's running OK then a bit rough, then Ok again. I think it just needs a good run to get everything working properly.
By the way love the little leather clutchbag on the side.
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Offline Skunky

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #173 on: June 26, 2018, 05:04:46 AM »
There is some tuning to do with the Acewell, considering the instructions are in English, they are as difficult to make sense of as the old German BEP instructions. The rev counter/speedo is all over the shop when I rev etc etc. Unsure if this is potentially all related to the known BEP fault. I have been informed I need to purchase a new BEP and return the old and apparently they will refund me for the backlight issue.


Dave,  With regard to the needle situation you may need to put a conditioning circuit on the RPM output to smooth down the signal. Rbm helped with this thread.

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11148.msg96987.html#msg96987
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Offline DJEwen

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Re: Triple S
« Reply #174 on: June 26, 2018, 03:56:14 PM »
I think it's too early for a happy-dance until it pounds the pavement without stalling, but a dram of Laphroaig or half a Glenn mango drizzled with lime juice would be appropriate right now, over here anyway.  :yes

WERD. I’m desperately trying to get there, Laitch. Sláinte Mhath

Arrhh I feel your frustation about the leaking tank. Had mine welded and checked with water for leaks, then spend most of a week painting, sanding up to Grit 4000 and finally 2 component clear coat - it really looked Good!! Then after 3 days it developed a leak in lower left side [emoji25]! I Got another tank and had a Pro paint it for 200€... looked better than my week of work!
 See if you Can borrow a tank or camouflage the leak for inspection... the sealing kits I know of needs to cure for quite a while!!
Regards
Christian

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Ahh... damnit! I’ve just treated the tank with the POR15 sealant... the can says, wait for it, a whole 96 hours drying time.... there are 61 hours until inspection. I’m surprised it’s so long, it took about 9.6 seconds to dry to my skin and now I can’t even get it off with paint thinners and a knife. I suspect a lot of that stated drying time is likely belt and braces to account for excess build up in dead legs and crevices for those customers who may be a little lax on the draining step. I have spent a good hour draining, freeing dead legs and siphoning the excess. The tank is now in my airing cupboard drying in the warmth. I’ll rotate it every hour.

Could use a stroke of luck, reckon If I fell into a barrel of boobs i’d come out sucking my own thumb right now.

I have another tank but it’s a mess inside, I wouldn't want to risk running those internals through the injectors. Will see what happens with the sealant over the next 48hrs








Hi Dave - Really looking good. Unfortunately K's don't seem to like sitting idle. Once you get through these teething stages it should get better. Guantanamo Bay Overalls!  :hehehe. When the bike was running it sounds great. I'm having similar issues with mine. It's running OK then a bit rough, then Ok again. I think it just needs a good run to get everything working properly.
By the way love the little leather clutchbag on the side.

Aye, I’m sure it will. To be honest, in a strangely frustrating way I’m kind of enjoying it, I’m learing more and more how to massage this delicate beast. The most annoying part is not being able to just walk away from it as I have nothing else to ride.

Glad you like the clutch, I stole it from the long haired generals wardrobe.

Dave,  With regard to the needle situation you may need to put a conditioning circuit on the RPM output to smooth down the signal. Rbm helped with this thread.

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,11148.msg96987.html#msg96987

Ahhhh.... I wasn’t sure I needed one. OK, I’ll go study that thread with my new found 96 million years of tank sealant drying time free time I have.

On a positive note, the fuel line quick releases arrived today and the build quality is top notch.
  • Scotland
  • 1985 K100 'Revive', 1987 K100 LT