"Revive" (1985 K100 Street Scrambler Build, not a Cafe Racer)

[Skunky]

Thanks, Gary! Day went past in a FLASH!

Re the Kilt... it's called a Kilt because anyone who calls it a dress or a skirt gets Kilt!

Ha! Here's how a Sassenach wears Tartan. Seems it not just for Sweatie's 


How to wear Tartan.PNG (28.24 kB . 324x576 - viewed 1048 times)

[DJEwen]

Ha! Here's how a Sassenach wears Tartan. Seems it not just for Sweatie's 


How to wear Tartan.PNG (28.24 kB . 324x576 - viewed 1048 times)

Dapper Dandy!

[DJEwen]

Hello again. Some of you may remember back around post #302 I installed a JMT Lithium-Ion Battery, well, my stupidly expensive battery has developed a very slight but unhealthy bulge, see below:







I suspect this may have been caused by either the battery itself being faulty, unlikely but possible but more likely caused by over charging, potentially a faulty voltage regulator? After having seen and heard many horror stories of late with lithium batteries going on fire and the disastrous consequences of these fires, mostly cause by people incorrect trying to extinguish the fire using water, (look up lithium batter fire and water) and the fear of this happening under my backside didn't seem like much fun so I decided to just buy another battery then test the voltage regulator once it arrived, although I have no idea as yet how to test the voltage regulator.

I ordered a Motobatt MB51814, Motobatt call it a hybrid type battery, it's maintenance free, comes with a 2 year warranty when registered, non spill-able, can be mounted in any position, has positive and negative terminals on both the front and back side of the battery but the best part about this battery is that it fits exactly inside the center recess of the K battery tray.









The Motobatt MB51814 is one of the recommended batteries from Motorworks, plus vat and delivery from them was quoted at £95 ($117) but I found a supplier on Ebay and got it to my door for £75 ($92) all in.

I had a spare hour so I set about installing the new battery but in my excitement I stupidly connected the positive to the negative and fixed down then when I went to attach the negative (to the positive) there was a small spark and I immediately realised what I was doing, I'm unsure what, if any damage can be done from doing this?
I swapped the terminals to their correct positions and went for start, immediately on hitting the start button I couldn't hear the fuel pump priming, the bike just cranked and cranked. I began the fault finding process beginning with all the easy ones, jettronic plug, 4 pin to tank, GPI, clutch etc but nothing. Pulled the #6 fuse and it was intact so I grabbed my multi-meter and checked for voltage across the #6 pins while depressing the start button, got nothing - would this indicate a failed fuel pump relay? This is as far as I got before running out of time, I had planned next to pull the FP relay and check for power in the socket. I have a spare fuel pump relay from the donor bike but it's still boxed up somewhere from the house move.

If anyone has any direction on fault finding the fuel pump issue and or testing of the battery voltage regulator it would be welcomed, I've yet to start searching.

[Laitch]

Hello again. Some of you may remember back around post #302 I installed a JMT Lithium-Ion Battery, well, my stupidly expensive battery has developed a very slight but unhealthy bulge, see below:

Is your moto subject to freezing temperatures occasionally in storage? Has it been connected to a charger during storage?

[DJEwen]

greetings...

you moto can not be repaired...

will be there tomorrow to haul it away to the crusher...

need you to warsh it...

now you gotts more time for this project...

j o

Haha Joe, don't say that! Yeah... i've got a few hours in the other project so far :D

[DJEwen]

Is your moto subject to freezing temperatures occasionally in storage? Has it been connected to a charger during storage?

Hey Laitch, it had been over November-Feb but I was just riding her 4 weeks ago with no issues. It's not been connected to any type of charger.

[Laitch]

It's not been connected to any type of charger.

You probably should check the output of the alternator. Anti-Gravity cautions that over 14.5 volts can damage the battery. Do you disconnect the battery ground when your riding it only intermittently. That's something I do.

[DJEwen]

You probably should check the output of the alternator. Anti-Gravity cautions that over 14.5 volts can damage the battery. Do you disconnect the battery ground when your riding it only intermittently. That's something I do.

Yeah, that's the plan but I need to get the bike running first, any thoughts on my other issue? Yeah, I disconnect the negative when not in use.

[Laitch]

I began the fault finding process beginning with all the easy ones, jettronic plug, 4 pin to tank, GPI, clutch etc but nothing.

Pulled the #6 fuse and it was intact so I grabbed my multi-meter and checked for voltage across the #6 pins while depressing the start button, got nothing - would this indicate a failed fuel pump relay?  I have a spare fuel pump relay from the donor bike but it's still boxed up somewhere from the house move.

What does "but nothing" mean in the context of your troubleshooting these elements?

No voltage will be indicated across fuse #6 while the starter is turning unless the FI relay has been energized by a signal from the Hall sensor, so those are two potential sources of failure. Compare the ignition control module values against those in the troubleshooting guide. Check Hall sensor function with a 12V LED as described in the guide. Check all ground connections.

[DJEwen]

What does "but nothing" mean in the context of your troubleshooting these elements?

No voltage will be indicated across fuse #6 while the starter is turning unless the FI relay has been energized by a signal from the Hall sensor, so those are two potential sources of failure. Compare the ignition control module values against those in the troubleshooting guide. Check Hall sensor function with a 12V LED as described in the guide. Check all ground connections.

I meant no change.

I have already measured no voltage across fuse #6 as I mentioned earlier. I'll have a further look at he FP relay then the hall sensor. Thanks, Laitch.

[Skunky]

Dave, Before you get in too deep, make sure you haven't disturbed the dreaded 4 pin connector to the fuel tank. I would clean it and reconnect it first as it is the main cause of fuel pump issues.

[DJEwen]

Dave, Before you get in too deep, make sure you haven't disturbed the dreaded 4 pin connector to the fuel tank. I would clean it and reconnect it first as it is the main cause of fuel pump issues.

Hi Gary, I went to the tank 4 pin first, I didn't "clean" it though as my electrical cleaner is another thing still in storage for the house move, just the usual "is there any shit in here, how do the connectors look, is it tight, give it a good blow out" - I'll revisit it with something alcohol based, maybe whisky!

[DJEwen]

Dave, Before you get in too deep, make sure you haven't disturbed the dreaded 4 pin connector to the fuel tank. I would clean it and reconnect it first as it is the main cause of fuel pump issues.

Hi Gary, I went to the tank 4 pin first, I didn't "clean" it though as my electrical cleaner is another thing still in storage for the house move, just the usual "is there any shit in here, how do the connectors look, is it tight, give it a good blow out" - I'll revisit it with something alcohol based, maybe whisky!

No joy cleaning the tank 4-pin.

[volador]

Skunky put down the Glenmorangie and read bottom of #477 its always the bloody 4-pin

[Skunky]

Skunky put down the Glenmorangie and read bottom of #477 its always the bloody 4-pin

Not for me 😁


28EE06A2-D628-417F-A68E-E7F6A70083EF.jpeg (47.39 kB . 432x576 - viewed 841 times)

[volador]

Not for me 😁

Very sexxy!  Like the carbon fiber

[volador]

Ahoy Dave congrats on the nuptials! A fine looking couple your a lucky bloke!

honeymoon reverie, bugger hopefully its the FI relay

[DJEwen]

Ahoy Dave congrats on the nuptials! A fine looking couple your a lucky bloke!

honeymoon reverie, bugger hopefully its the FI relay

Thank you Sir for the kind words, shes a fine woman.

Yes, hopefully it is the FI relay, I already took a gamble on it before Laitch suggested the Hall Sensor and ordered a used relay from Motorworks which should be here next week.

In the meantime I went out to work through Vogels fault finding flow chart: Is the fuse ok? Yes, Power from Ignition Switch to pin #86 on Fuel injection relay? Yes 12v Ground from Pin 7 of ECU to Pin #85 of Fuel Injection Relay? - I'm not sure how I'm supposed to execute this test, I know I built this bike but very much a noob in the use of a multimeter, do I just connect a probe to each connection and test for voltage? If yes there was nothing. I'm a little out of my depth here.

[volador]

Thanks for directing to the Motorworks UK for FI relay. Have been searching for correct part# 61368373700 for the 5-pin relay

"Ground from Pin 7 of ECU to Pin #85 of Fuel Injection Relay?"

Is a continuity check for wire - 'Ohms Ω' or 'Continuity Check' setting on your VOM

either test lead to Pin85 to Pin7 on ICU plug not ECU plug

you are more concerned at the moment to verify 12V on FI relay when Start Button pressed on Pin87 or Pin87b -the fuel pump leg of circuit

You can check the health of 'current' FI relay removed from moto by applying power +12V to Pin86 and negative to Pin85

then check for continuity through Pin30 to Pin87 or Pin87b

[DJEwen]

Thanks for directing to the Motorworks UK for FI relay. Have been searching for correct part# 61368373700 for the 5-pin relay

"Ground from Pin 7 of ECU to Pin #85 of Fuel Injection Relay?"

Is a continuity check for wire - 'Ohms Ω' or 'Continuity Check' setting on your VOM

either test lead to Pin85 to Pin7 on ICU plug not ECU plug

you are more concerned at the moment to verify 12V on FI relay when Start Button pressed on Pin87 or Pin87b -the fuel pump leg of circuit

You can check the health of 'current' FI relay removed from moto by applying power +12V to Pin86 and negative to Pin85

then check for continuity through Pin30 to Pin87 or Pin87b

You're very welcome re Motorworks, they've been super handy for me for nearly everything K related just arguably not always the most cost effective!

Ignition Control Unit! What, well that explains a lot, clearly the translation from French to English in Vogel's flow chart wasn't perfect. - Thanks for the clarification.

This is my current state of play;
- Pin #86 of FI relay should see +12v: It does.
- Pin #85 of FI relay should see -12v: It reads nothing. However when red lead is on battery positive and black to pin #85 it reads 12v when the start button is depressed.
- Pin #30 of FI relay should see +12v at any time even with ignition off: It reads nothing.

Additionally, I installed halogen bulbs to the injector plugs and got nothing on turn over (across all 4). I also put power directly to the fuel pump and it ran fine.

I need to do the correct ground test, tomorrow. I'll also perform the test of the current relay as you suggest unless you think otherwise from my findings above?

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Additionally, I installed halogen bulbs to the injector plugs and got nothing on turn over (across all 4). I also put power directly to the fuel pump and it ran fine.

Halogen bulbs draw way too much power from the injector driver.  If you use anything, us a 12v LED.  I hope the Halogen bulbs didn't damage anything.

[DJEwen]

Halogen bulbs draw way too much power from the injector driver.  If you use anything, us a 12v LED.  I hope the Halogen bulbs didn't damage anything.

They are just 12v low voltage halogens.

[alexg]

The label indicates 20W draw at 12V.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

3 20 watt bulbs will draw 5 amps.  The injectors are rated at something like 20ma each or 60ma total.  The halogens draw about 83 times as much current as the injectors.  You are basically putting a dead short circuit across the transistor that switches the injectors on and off.

I hope you haven't burned out the driver circuit.  If you are lucky, there is a current limiter somewhere in the injector control.

[DJEwen]

3 20 watt bulbs will draw 5 amps.  The injectors are rated at something like 20ma each or 60ma total.  The halogens draw about 83 times as much current as the injectors.  You are basically putting a dead short circuit across the transistor that switches the injectors on and off.

I hope you haven't burned out the driver circuit.  If you are lucky, there is a current limiter somewhere in the injector control.

Well it seems to be working for everyone else that’s doing them one at a time, Gryph.