Rough running now no running.

[Martin]

After fitting my fuel cooler I developed a couple of problems on my first test run. Intermittent rough running cutting out at lights and only just able to start slow crank speed. Fitted a new set of brushes and the charging improved I still might need a new battery as it is 5-6 years old. I took it for a run this morning intending to get to the bottom of the rough running. It fired up so I took it for a run but it occasionally misfired, but no sign of fuel starvation as I was able to get it easily up to 140Kph and still accelerating. I got it back in the garage and did a header temp reading all even.
I pulled the spark plugs which were sooty and dry. While I had them out I cleaned them and checked the spark which was fine.

I then removed the fuel cooler intending to eliminate it as a problem. Once removed I tried to fire it up it caught a couple of times and then would just crank over with no firing. I checked the power to the pump at the fuse block power both sides of the fuse when the green starter button is pressed. I then checked power at the fuel pump supply plug under the tank no power on the brown wire. I am about to change the relay, if I can find one in my box of bits. and I will proceed from there.
Regards Martin.

[Inge K.]

I then checked power at the fuel pump supply plug under the tank no power on the brown wire.

Power to the fuel pump is the green wire, brown is ground.

Have you been disturbing the connector/wires to the temp sensor while working With the fuel cooler?

[Martin]

Inge thanks for the input I'm red green colour blind which does not help. When I tested the relay it was dead, I substituted a scungy old one the I had in my bits box and the pump is now pumping. This however was a bit of a weird one, normally relays either work or don't work.  The intermittent failure threw me a bit especially as it occurred straight after the fuel cooler installation on the first test ride, along with the failure to charge. I am now waiting for the Honourable Minister for finance and recreation to get home so I can go down to Super Cheap autos and get a new one. At least it was an easy to work it out. :dunno
Regards Martin.

[Inge K.]

I am now waiting for the Honourable Minister for finance and recreation to get home so I can go down to Super Cheap autos and get a new one.

Beware of the pin designation, 30 and 86 is swapped compared what's mostly used in the automotive world.

[Martin]

Thanks Inge I must of got the correct one I ended up with a 40 amp one and it fired right up. I'm going to charge it overnight before I take it for a test run.
Regards Martin.

[Inge K.]

Thanks Inge I must of got the correct one I ended up with a 40 amp one and it fired right up.

Yes, it's gonna function with the wrong pin config too.......but you gonna draw the power needed via the
kill switch instead of directly from the battery.
Don't know if the kill switch gonna appreciate the extra load over time.....if you got the wrong pin config.

[Martin]

Inge on the relay fitted, which is a Narva 68000BL the connections are Pin 30 = power in   Pin 85 = earth  Pin 86 = switch  Pin 87 = power out acc 1. Is this right or wrong. Bikes running great except I ran out of petrol on the way to the service station, first time in twenty years. :dunno
Regards Martin.

[Inge K.]

the connections are Pin 30 = power in   Pin 85 = earth  Pin 86 = switch  Pin 87 = power out acc 1.

This is the number codes for the DIN standard, which you find on all automotive relays after the DIN norm.

On the Narva relay number 30 is on the place where 86 should have been and vice versa.
The Narva relay is a Type B, you should have a Type A.

The Narva relay missing a spike protection which the genuine relay have.

The Narva relay have a single output (87) which should be double (87x2).....your bike should not start with
this relay.......it's something very strange happening here, unless the wiring have been modified.

[Martin]

The BMW 4 pin relay is yellow and has the following numbers 601.484 then 61.31 and 1 375 474 marked BMW. As this is no longer available what do I need?

[Inge K.]

The BMW 4 pin relay is yellow and has the following numbers 601.484 then 61.31 and 1 375 474 marked BMW.

This relay is normally used for horn and LSR.......the FI relay should be 5 pin, have a black or light green housing and be mounted in the front left corner of the relay box.
If you have a yellow 4 pin relay in that place....the wiring have been modified or you have model that is
a bit different from what I've seen so far.

[rbm]

There is a version of a Fiamm horn relay that might work in place of the FI relay.  This has two 87 pins and one 30 pin.  https://kisantech.com/mag/h0004.html

[Martin]

Solved thanks Inge. I am the second owner of my Brick, when I started checking the relays I was going off paper labels stuck on all the relays. Horn relay was marked as fuel pump relay.  After checking in the spot where the fuel pump relay should have been was a Narva 5 pin relay of the incorrect type. When I first got my Brick there were some spares including a 5 pin OEM relay, I dug it out and looked at the paper label and it was marked as load shed relay. I took the relays over to a mate who is a sparky and also has a few wrecked Bricks. He ran a meter over the Narva and sometimes it worked and sometimes not, he grabbed a OEM relay and compared it, it totally different configuration. Ran the meter over the both OEM ones and they both work but told me to use the one that he gave me. So for the last twenty years I have been running around with a totally incorrect relay. If you hadn't clued me up I probably would still be chasing my tail. :hehehe I will now have to go and check all the relay markings.
Regards an enlightened Martin.
Fuel pump relay narva.jpg (42.11 kB . 768x576 - viewed 413 times)
Relay marked as fuel pump.jpg (44.22 kB . 768x576 - viewed 438 times)
Relay marked as load shed.jpg (49.27 kB . 768x576 - viewed 434 times)

[Inge K.]

 :2thumbup:

[Martin]

Thanks Inge all the small relays incorrectly labeled. :nono At least I now know which one is which? I will redo the labels.
Regards Martin.

[Inge K.]

There is a version of a Fiamm horn relay that might work in place of the FI relay. 

No, it have incorrect pin config.....30 and 86 must be swapped.

[rbm]

Swap the wires in the socket.  The spade connectors are held in with a small tab; depress the tab to extract the connector from the housing.

[Martin]

Thanks fellas I'm up and running, although I'll have to replace the battery.  No sign of the misfire and rough running, still slightly confused over the symptoms. Possibly the relay cutting in and out? And I still can't work out how it ran with a totally different configured relay and not do any damage?  :dunno
Regards Martin.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Southern hemisphere...

[Martin]

 :hehehe Gryph

Inge and Rob I did find what might be a good source of new and second hand relays. I think the configuration is the same from looking at it. More BMW cars in the wreckers than bikes.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DME-Fuel-Pump-Relay-BMW-E36-E39-E38-E53-X5-Z3-12631711266/252650083537?
Regards Martin.

BMW relay.jpg (8.71 kB . 300x235 - viewed 428 times)

[Martin]

Also found these new if they fit. If they do it would open up the source by heaps, and reasonable price.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FUEL-PUMP-RELAY-FITS-BMW-VOLKSWAGEN-PORSCHE-VOLVO-JAGUAR-E21-XJ12-911-411-142/251499637177?

FUEL PUMP RELAY
5 Pin;12V 30 AMP
Without Resistor,With Mounting Bracket

Part #: 311906061C / 311 906 061C / 0 332 019 150 / 0332019150
Condition: NEW
BMW
77-83 320I E21
79-81 528I E12
75-78 530I E12
JAGUAR
75-79 XJ12
76-81 XJS
PORSCHE
1980 911
81-83 911 3.0L
1984 911 3.2L
85-89 Carrera
VOLKSWAGEN
71-72 411
1973 412 EA Engine
1973 412 EB Engine
1974 412 1.7L
1974 412 1.8L EC Engine
67-78 Beetle Type 1 Bug
67-73 Fastback
68-73 Fastback U Engine
72-73 Fastback X Engine
67-74 Karmann Ghia
67-73 Squareback
68-72 Squareback U Engine
VOLVO
72-73 142
72-73 144
72-73 145
1969 1800
72-73 1800

[Inge K.]

:hehehe Gryph

Inge and Rob I did find what might be a good source of new and second hand relays. I think the configuration is the same from looking at it. More BMW cars in the wreckers than bikes.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DME-Fuel-Pump-Relay-BMW-E36-E39-E38-E53-X5-Z3-12631711266/252650083537?
Regards Martin.

BMW relay.jpg (8.71 kB . 300x235 - viewed 428 times)

Not plug and play....wrong pin config.....search a fuel pump relay for older BMW car models.

[Martin]

Inge I now have a correct spare 5 and 4 pin relays. I have stored them in the relay box under the tank. :2thumbup:
Regards Martin.

[Inge K.]

Also found these new if they fit. If they do it would open up the source by heaps, and reasonable price.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FUEL-PUMP-RELAY-FITS-BMW-VOLKSWAGEN-PORSCHE-VOLVO-JAGUAR-E21-XJ12-911-411-142/251499637177?

FUEL PUMP RELAY
5 Pin;12V 30 AMP
Without Resistor,With Mounting Bracket

Part #: 311906061C / 311 906 061C / 0 332 019 150 / 0332019150
Condition: NEW
BMW
77-83 320I E21
79-81 528I E12
75-78 530I E12
JAGUAR
75-79 XJ12
76-81 XJS
PORSCHE
1980 911
81-83 911 3.0L
1984 911 3.2L
85-89 Carrera
VOLKSWAGEN
71-72 411
1973 412 EA Engine
1973 412 EB Engine
1974 412 1.7L
1974 412 1.8L EC Engine
67-78 Beetle Type 1 Bug
67-73 Fastback
68-73 Fastback U Engine
72-73 Fastback X Engine
67-74 Karmann Ghia
67-73 Squareback
68-72 Squareback U Engine
VOLVO
72-73 142
72-73 144
72-73 145
1969 1800
72-73 1800

No info about pin config......missing spike protection, which the OEM relay have.

[Inge K.]

Inge I now have a correct spare 5 and 4 pin relays. I have stored them in the relay box under the tank. :2thumbup:
Regards Martin.

 :riding: