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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: Jnclem on August 27, 2015, 01:35:19 PM
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Well, I've been looking around our little town for an appropriate coolant for the K1100. A few parts stores and Walmart are my choices. Car Quest and Napa could not tell me if any of their coolants were indeed Phosphate and Silicate/Borite free. While Prestone Long-life used to be recommended, and may be fine, their "new" extended life formula does not specifically say what is not in it either. They hedge on their website, but they basically say phosphate only matters in Europe, and that all US coolants contain phosphates. That leads me to believe that theirs does also.
Finally, at of all places, O'Reilly's, their house brand long-life coolant said all the right things. Good for all engines, good for aluminum engines, can be mixed with all brands and, phosphate and silicate free. So, I bought a gallon of that and a gallon of distilled water. I'm sure it will be fine, but O'Reilly's? Never would have thought it.
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The BMW stuff is actually cheaper or equivalent than the high end stuff (which is phosphate free, universal, etc) at oreilly's.
One type you could do that is more common at NAPA, etc would be the Pentosin G11 or G12 for VW/Audi/Porsche. The VW's have issues getting eroded from the green stuff.
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The BMW stuff is actually cheaper or equivalent than the high end stuff (which is phosphate free, universal, etc) at oreilly's.
Could be, but when you add in the 400 mile round trip to the dealership, the price increases significantly.
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The BMW stuff is actually cheaper or equivalent than the high end stuff (which is phosphate free, universal, etc) at oreilly's.
Could be, but when you add in the 400 mile round trip to the dealership, the price increases significantly.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/BE36/BMW_BE36_BASMIS_pg4.htm#item9
Pelican parts would be an option as well.
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I work for O'Reilly and we sell Pentosin ++ (or G1100) in 1.5L quantities, about $12 per container, in all our stores.
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Hmmm, Whats wrong with the green Prestone? I thought all modern coolants were safe for aluminum? And what is and where do you get water wetter?? I have seen it mentioned here and other web forums?
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It's actually called "Water Wetter" I believe, and we sell it as well. Price not known, popular for stock/drag cars that can't use conventional AF.
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My $.02, no real reason for "long life" coolant if you drain/flush your system every 2 years as recommended anyway.
Also agree that most coolants on the market nowadays are rated for aluminium compatibility.
As far a BMW branded coolant, do you have a BMW car dealership near by? Chances are they will have the branded coolant if you want it.
Some vendors will ship it as well.
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I buy whatever the cheapest/on sale coolant is. At this point I believe everything on the readily available commercial market is aluminum safe and all that
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Peak brand I used....uh-oh, I foresee an oil thread about to appear!
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My $.02, no real reason for "long life" coolant if you drain/flush your system every 2 years as recommended anyway.
Also agree that most coolants on the market nowadays are rated for aluminium compatibility.
As far a BMW branded coolant, do you have a BMW car dealership near by? Chances are they will have the branded coolant if you want it.
Some vendors will ship it as well.
Just 200 miles one way. I'm sure they would ship it, but I don't believe there is any reason for all that expense. If my radiator clogs up, and my engine turns into a pile of molten metal, I'll be the first to come back and warn everyone.
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I am using Peak Long Life and change every two years. I agree that with the ubiquity of aluminum engines and radiators, almost anything that isn't green is probably going to work in our K's.
Only caveat is that one uses DISTILLED water. Previous owner of my 100 must have used well water judging from the crap in the cooling system that I am still trying to flush. If you have one, your dehumidifier is a cheap and convenient source of distilled water.
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+1 Jnclem, Sounds like you found the right stuff at a fair price. Regardless of the "Long Life" label, it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't change it every couple years. More importantly, using what YOU are most comfortable with IS the BEST CHOICE! It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It's your bike and you're the one riding and paying to maintain it.
Frankly, If O'Riley's AF that meets the criteria for the manufacturer specs then it is just as good as the stuff from BMW or a more highly advertised brand. (Why pay for the extra marketing or name cache if you don't have to?)
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Oh oh, the stuff in my bike is very much green and always has been the whole time I've owned it. Probably something I should address this winter.
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The only one that I know of that I call "death fluid" is the Dex Cool crap from GM.......I had it in my 2000 pickup and I had to change the intake manifold gaskets 2x because of it.. Needless to say after the 2nd time I went with the generic green and had no issues since.
Nothing wrong with green, so long as it is rated for aluminium, and you mix it with distilled water... change it every other year and you should be just fine....
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+1 Jnclem, Sounds like you found the right stuff at a fair price. Regardless of the "Long Life" label, it doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't change it every couple years. More importantly, using what YOU are most comfortable with IS the BEST CHOICE! It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It's your bike and you're the one riding and paying to maintain it.
Frankly, If O'Riley's AF that meets the criteria for the manufacturer specs then it is just as good as the stuff from BMW or a more highly advertised brand. (Why pay for the extra marketing or name cache if you don't have to?)
Yeah, I didn't care about the long life label, that's just the one that had, or lacked, the ingredients I was looking for. I am diligent about changing all fluids, so I don't care what they say, it will get changed regularly.
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If you ride in hot weather or a lot of traffic, maybe consider the Water wetter or Bel Ray moto chill racing coolant. I just put the Bel Ray in my K1100LT but have not rode enough to tell. And it's been a little cool up here for this time of year
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The only one that I know of that I call "death fluid" is the Dex Cool crap from GM.......I had it in my 2000 pickup and I had to change the intake manifold gaskets 2x because of it.. Needless to say after the 2nd time I went with the generic green and had no issues since.
Nothing wrong with green, so long as it is rated for aluminium, and you mix it with distilled water... change it every other year and you should be just fine....
Or topping the the VW G11 stuff off with green: turns into a gel.
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So, the thread may be dormant, but the subject isn't...
Putting my .02 in here regarding the 'water wetter'- it's not antifreeze, an antifreeze 'substitute' and it's not a corrosion inhibitor. it works by making the coolant more efficient in absorbing heat from interior surfaces, especially 'hot spots' like cylinder sleeves.
See: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10
I've used this in my 1200 Triumph that ran so hot that the rad fan would come on at 55F ambient and normal riding. Yeah I flushed it good before using this, and the problem went away, and the fan never ran again until August, after sitting in traffic for 10 minutes. Also used it in an already clean Honda CX and stopped the temp spike when sitting in traffic as well.
Do a little reading elsewhere as well, and you'll find out that water is a much more efficient heat conductor than antifreeze, but the antifreeze is required to prevent freezing (duh) and boil over. The best mixture I've found is 30-35% antifreeze, a shot of water-wetter and distilled water. 33% antifreeze 67% distilled water freezes at 0F & boils at 256F, that's plenty of temp protection for me, (my attached garage doesn't drop below 20F even in the dead of winter). Given the higher heat transfer capabilities of this cocktail, that's going in the brick tonight, I'll probably end up with a manual switch on the rad fan just to 'exercise it'.
The stuff has proven itself to me...
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greetings...
i use prestone fitty fitty premix... i need freeze protection down past thirty below...
i also have used water wetter on the west coast where riding above a hundert was a common occurance...
i have not had any coolant related problems with the fitty fitty factory mix or water wetter...
j o
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Dry water is mighty high on my useless scale. I'd call a dowser.
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OEM Coolant. It says all the right stuff on the label, but I am curious if anyone has any experience with it? I am going to put my Summer coolant mix in tomorrow using this stuff. I figure it must be the right stuff because it was twice as much as all the other shit! :musicboohoo: I was also wondering what is the best mix for cooling? How does a 20% coolant, 10% Water Wetter, and 70% water sound for cooling. That is just a guess for me. For all you science minded, chemically educated, and fastidious, is this "the best mix for cooling"? And if not, what is/ :dunno
Thanks and See Ya in the Twisties,
Bizz
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I had Pentosin in the brick up until I had it in the dealership for winter storage & complete fluid change, I presume they put in the BMW labeled stuff. It's do for a change, and I'll probably use up the remaining Pentosin I have.
The cage, which has an aluminum block engine, has had Prestone 50/50 most of its 17 years, and is still going strong at 250+K (knock on wood).
FWIW, I've had indie techs tell me that dex cool is fine in the GM products, IF the ph is monitored and adjusted as necessary with fresh concentrate.
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Have used the Prestone 50/50 and no problems so far, change every 4 years, I thought all the modern ethylene glycol products were aluminum friendly. Maybe I'm missing something... ???
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I use the BMW coolant at $15.00 Au for 1.5 Lt it's cheap insurance. Even use it in the Honorable Minister for Finance & Recreations car. But I never use tap water always use distilled water.
C.heers Martin.
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FWIW, I've had indie techs tell me that dex cool is fine in the GM products, IF the ph is monitored and adjusted as necessary with fresh concentrate.
Some coolants don't play well with dex cool :mbird Turns the the mix to caffe latte coloured goo ! DAMHIK ...... Imho dex cool is more trouble than its worth. As with any fluid change get all the old stuff out first !
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Yep, that's how I found out my bike runs cooler(according to the temp gauge) with the thermostat out and just water. I drained the coolant out then I filled it with distilled water and drove it about 20 miles to douche it out, and drained it again. Then I filled it with 10% Water Wetter, 20% coolant, and 70% distilled water. Um. the old stuff, green prestone or peak or both :dunno , seemed to work just as well for cooling!. Now I know. But it ran coolest with the thermostat out and just water?
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Running too cool can reduce performance some,,,, Does it run too hot with the thermostat? Keeping a consistent operating temp will keep every component in tolerance and perform as it was designed to.
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In my quest for excitement, I spent one hour in a frenzy of speed-reading and can say unreservedly with the awesome power of the WWW and MOTOBRICK.COM archives behind me, that there are three coolant objectives for the Brick owner.
1. Use long life coolant—a distinct coolant formula—that is without nitrites (nitrides). According to a BMW service bulletin in our archives, nitrites will discolor the coolant level tube to a degree that will mask the coolant level. That will impede checking for a proper coolant level.
2. Maintain the recommended coolant level. When the level lowers, it may allow the formation of coolant and water vapors that are corrosive and that may promote seal damage and sediment formation. DexCool was involved in defending itself in a class action lawsuit several years ago. In those days, apparently, when DexCool levels dropped, the vapors were alleged by its dissatisfied users' lawyer brigade to be particularly corrosive causing wailing, moaning, gnashing of teeth, hand wringing and end-of-the-world consequences to engines and the bank accounts of their users. Payouts were made.
3. Expect optimal results by using a single brand and type of coolant. Coolant provides pump/seal lubrication, coolant channel preservation, freeze protection and overheating protection. When different brands of coolants are mixed to an extent approaching 50% or less of their original concentrations, a subsequent loss of their protective qualities may result.
BMW recommends the use of BMW coolant or other brands of long life coolant that are free of nitrites. That's the extent of BMW's recommendation in my K's riders manual. Coolant degrades and evaporates. Long life coolants are probably recommended because they maintain their properties well. The two year replacement cycle makes sense; the maintenance of recommended coolant level seems essential to resist degradation of parts, gnashing of teeth and the rest of it. Believe it or not.
So much for my excitement—until the premiere of gone_ape's sequel, Return of the Throttle Blipper.
Running too cool can reduce performance some . . . Keeping a consistent operating temp will keep every component in tolerance and perform as it was designed to.
+1
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Product Review-NAPA Long Life Coolant in a 1994 K75RT mixed 60/40 water/AF with distilled water in flushed system.
After 2900 miles in 4 days at speeds of 70 to 100+ in ambient temperatures ranging from 60 to 100+ Fahrenheit, engine operation was excellent and coolant temperature as displayed on the BMW gauge stayed within the 5th and 6th marks at all times after warm up. Temp gauge read at 5th mark consistently, only rising to 2/3 way to the 6th when under heavy load on uphills and in 90+ temperatures.
I consider this to be pretty good.
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That sounds great! :2thumbup: Did you have any lower speeds? Stop n go? As soon as I am off the Highway, my temp starts to go up. In stop n go traffic, I shut it off while I wait. Thats at probably 75 fahrenheit and above. Is this normal for a K1100 LT?
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As soon as I am off the Highway, my temp starts to go up. In stop n go traffic, I shut it off while I wait. Thats at probably 75 fahrenheit and above.
I've got a few questions, bizarro. How far "up" does the temperature go in stop-and-go traffic? Can you describe the difference in temperature like Gryph does according to marks on your gauge? Does your fan run and stabilize the temperature when it starts to go up?
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Laitch,
On the Highway, It runs between the center and first mark left of center. On hot days, usually toward the center more, but not over, and cooler days, more towards the first mark left of center. It doesn't take long if I get in stop n go traffic, that it starts creeping over the center mark and towards the mark right of center. My fan doesn't come on till well after it is pissing coolant from the overflow tank so I shut it off about halfway from the mark right of center and to the red mark. And even slower riding and lower gears (in a town, and or up a hill) on a hot day will bring it over the center mark. So I just avoid the pissing coolant and engine heat by turning the engine off. I think the bike is air cooled with water assit, not really a water cooled engine..........................or so it seems?
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My fan doesn't come on till well after it is pissing coolant from the overflow tank
This problem seems to have been surfacing on your bike since June of 2015, bizzaro. You should consider focusing on a remedy; the bike's fan should be running to prevent the over-expansion in the overflow tank. The fan relay might be faulty, the temperature sensor might be faulty and the thermostat may not be opening. Having these components operating correctly is essential to prevent engine damage. You can reuse the coolant that has been drained so you can do the diagnostics.
It's not hot enough up here to cause the over-expansion problem your bike is exhibiting, even in Montpelier traffic. :hehehe Here's a thread (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,6702.msg45770.html#msg45770) with some procedures.
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A bit left of field, but I have seen fan blades not attached to the shaft. Fan motor comes on and the blades don't spin, or don't spin properly. Some blades were attached to the shaft by a spring clip, the clip squeezed the centre of the blades onto the motor shaft. I no longer have a OEM fan but I think my original had this clip. I have also fitted an override switch, but I don't rely on it for cooling just use it as a check. As per Laitch you need to get it sorted.
C.heers Martin.
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Remove the thermostat and check its opening temperature. That's fun. It's like growing sea monkeys.
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I checked the themostat when I changed the fluid. It opened just as the turkey was done! :clap: Perfect. (180-185 degrees). I am suspiciuos of the temperature sensor due to other indications such as carbon buildup and all. (running rich?)
My fan works and blows air, I have hot wired it. It doesn't come on till I am into the solid red for a bit. To be clear, my bike is not overheating, but would on a hot day at idle. They all do according to this forum. that is how folks check the fan here! (or one of them).
I will study up on checking the temp sensor. I am pretty sure I just read here the test is a replacement, though I am sure there are other ways! Also, I don't want to hijack this thread!
Thx Guys,
Bizz
Hey Laitch, I could just swing over to Ridley with some brews!? :2thumbup: :hehehe
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To be clear, my bike is not overheating, but would on a hot day at idle. They all do according to this forum..
Hey Liatch, I could just swing over to Ridley with some brews!? :2thumbup: :hehehe
They all spray coolant at idle in traffic in temps over 75º? Burn dressing must be part of a K1100 tool kit. :hehehe
Come on over with the brews. The road in front of our house is where people stop and ask themselves "Are we on the right road?" If I'm not here just leave them in the shade next to the chopping block and wood chunks.
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In my quest for excitement, I spent one hour in a frenzy of speed-reading and can say unreservedly with the awesome power of the WWW and MOTOBRICK.COM archives behind me, that there are three coolant objectives for the Brick owner.
1. Use long life coolant—a distinct coolant formula—that is without nitrites (nitrides). According to a BMW service bulletin in our archives, nitrites will discolor the coolant level tube to a degree that will mask the coolant level. That will impede checking for a proper coolant level.
Great info, thanks for researching and sharing.
I've used Prestone Long-Life coolant, changing it out every two years at a 40% concentrate following the procedures on Fleischer's site http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/k-coolant.htm (http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/k-coolant.htm) and have had no issues in the hot summer commute in coastal Virginia.
I work at a Chevy dealership and use DexCool on a daily basis. I haven't worked there long but as far as I know the Dex issue is passed and its cause was just as you described. My short time helping out at the BMW dealership allowed me to get some of their coolant for a good price so I will be using it next time.
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I was doing coolant research for my newly acquired k1100 as I needed to fix the thermostat (can't maintain temp well, especially in rain) and discovered the Zerex coolants.
I ended up getting Zerex G30 from my local autoparts store. This is what the latest BMWs, Audis and VWs still use, afaik, and is backwards compatible with g48 and g05. It's $20 for a gallon of premix (no concentrate), and it's enough for a k1100. And it's free of all the nasty stuff mentioned in this thread.
I did not check further than the below post, but I believe the blue coolant mentioned on this forum is the Zerex g48.
There's also some Zerex brand radiator flush that I used followed by a couple distilled flushes, as my coolant was dark blue green.
Background on the Zerex 'g' series https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/phosphate-free-coolant-prestone.71985/post-676653