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MOTOBRICK.COM => The MBdotCOM Community Center => Topic started by: beemuker on April 03, 2015, 03:42:33 PM
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I recently acquired a 92 K75s. I bought it knowing the ABS didn't work. I'm pretty happy with the brakes like they are. Maybe I don't know better? It looks to me it's like insurance, it costs you when it's not needed but pays for itself if it is? The seller said it's a bad module. He took it ot BMW to have it diagnosed and they prob told him it would be 2 million to fix it. Looks like some one is rebuilding them and selling them used. advice? If I decide not to fix it, can I take the abs parts off.
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you'll get a ton of opinions going either way, some have strong feelings about ABS and others are ambivalent. I fall into the category of: they're great if they work otherwise it's excess weight.
i bought a 94 with faulty ABS, used the information available on this site to troubleshoot and diagnose. ended up being a faulty control unit/modulator and i didn't wish to spring the money for new or rebuilt unit, plus the system seems fraught with problems if you're to believe half of what you read here so i decided to remove ABS system from bike . That said, I removed all components (modulator, wheel rings, sensors and decals) and wiring and replaced original brake lines with stainless steel flex-lines, had them made at local hydraulics shop. Works great and easy to do if you are a semi-talented wrench turner.
You may run into a problem if your state requires safety inspection and your inspector is OCD type. I live in virginia which has an annual safety inspection but my inspector does a walk-around looking at lights, horn, tires, brake-pad thickness, brake lights and directionals. you may run into a problem if you get into an accident and insurance inspector discovers your ABS is gone or non-functional.
I never had ABS on a motorcycle so don't miss it. I hope to never be in a situation where I need it, i've been riding some sort of two-wheel contraption since the mid-60's and have found that paying attention and maintaining a safe distance usually negates the need for hard braking.
I know this will generate all sorts of replies but in the end it becomes a personal decision.
photos are of junk removed and new brake lines.
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Plenty of bikes out there without ABS. Also, ABS is no guarantee you won't crash, just improves your odds in certain situations. Nice if it worked, but I'd probably not bother fixing it.
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thanks, I think I'll take it off when I get a chance. but I' ve got other things to do , like put the new shock on.
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The new Japanese ABS systems are great. The old BMW system prone to age issues. I side with it being crapola and removing.
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Saved my ass a couple of times and more importantly, my wife's......you guys that think it's a luxury try a hard brake over a wet manhole cover or road paint in the rain...guaranteed you'll be balled up in a fetal position waiting for EMTs.
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ABS is always worth fixing -- my $0.02...
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A 92 k75 is most likely an ABS1 system, and I believe that they are more economical to repair than the ABS2 on the later bikes.
I've read many positive stories/results of Tosi's repair/rebuild of ABS1 controllers.
http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/ (http://bmwk10075abs1fix.web.fc2.com/)
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My ABS v1 was working fine when I removed it from the bike to save weight.
How costly is it to have a dealer test the brain/controller?
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My ABS v1 was working fine when I removed it from the bike to save weight.
How costly is it to have a dealer test the brain/controller?
it was tested and found defective by the former owner
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Saved my ass a couple of times and more importantly, my wife's......you guys that think it's a luxury try a hard brake over a wet manhole cover or road paint in the rain...guaranteed you'll be balled up in a fetal position waiting for EMTs.
What's your guarantee pay out if we're not in the fetal position? Just keeping my options open. ;-)
(The preceding was an attempt at a joke. (Please refrain from being upset by it. :musicboohoo: Thank you Mngmt.)
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...it was tested and found defective by the former owner...
The reason I asked is so I can have mine officially tested before selling so that I can offer it AS-IS. I don't want to sell it, have it damaged by the buyer, and then returned as "not working".
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Saved my ass a couple of times and more importantly, my wife's......you guys that think it's a luxury try a hard brake over a wet manhole cover or road paint in the rain...guaranteed you'll be balled up in a fetal position waiting for EMTs.
What's your guarantee pay out if we're not in the fetal position? Just keeping my options open. ;-)
(The preceding was an attempt at a joke. (Please refrain from being upset by it. :musicboohoo: Thank you Mngmt.)
Ha ha. Done my share of sliding on slippery stuff. My only bad dump was getting blindsided by a deer, ABS wouldn't have done squat. Hurt too much to ball up in fetal position.
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http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html
Do a search on "motorcycle ABS test" and see what comes up. The link above is my favorite for the knuckleheads on this site because it uses bikes from our era, including a BMW. Now I've led you to water, let's see if you drink. :yes
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First part of article has 9 riders traveling approx 27,000 miles or an average of 3,000 miles per rider. 8 out of 9 reported they would have had an accident had it not been for ABS.
Does this mean that the typical rider has an 88% chance of a brake lockup causing an accident every 3,000 miles he rides?! Holy f-ing crap!!! At 10,000+ miles a year, I should be dead right now!
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http://www.ibmwr.org/prodreview/abstests.html
Do a search on "motorcycle ABS test" and see what comes up. The link above is my favorite for the knuckleheads on this site because it uses bikes from our era, including a BMW. Now I've led you to water, let's see if you drink. :yes
INTERESTING. I still think I'll take it off. it looks so clunky.
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If I had ABS, I'm sure there would have been many times it would have saved my life. It is fun to use in the snow with the car, but easy to start depending on it instead of more attentive driving. Don't get me wrong, it's a lifesaver in certain situations. But I don't got it. :falldown:
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Do a search on "motorcycle ABS test" and see what comes up...
If this in reply to my comment, I should have been more clear. (and I don't mean to sidetrack this thread.)
I meant that I have an ABS brain / computer that I want to have tested so that I can sell it. I know it's working because the ABS worked great before I removed it from the bike.
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Not at all Tim....
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As a side note for those that will include cosmetics into ABS maintenance, I have ABS logo and fork stickers for all K bikes:
ABS logo sticker http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=abs-sticker-for-k100-k75-k1 (http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=abs-sticker-for-k100-k75-k1)
ABS fork stickers http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=k100-and-k1100-abs-fork-sticker (http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=k100-and-k1100-abs-fork-sticker)
(http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/K_ABS_group-300x300.jpeg) (http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/K_K1100_ABS_fork-300x300.jpg)
And many other stickers for your flying brick.
Send in your inquiry, happy to help!
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As a side note for those that will include cosmetics into ABS maintenance, I have ABS logo and fork stickers for all K bikes:
ABS logo sticker http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=abs-sticker-for-k100-k75-k1 (http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=abs-sticker-for-k100-k75-k1)
ABS fork stickers http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=k100-and-k1100-abs-fork-sticker (http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/?product=k100-and-k1100-abs-fork-sticker)
(http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/K_ABS_group-300x300.jpeg) (http://www.heritagestickers.eu/cat/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/K_K1100_ABS_fork-300x300.jpg)
And many other stickers for your flying brick.
Send in your inquiry, happy to help!
Now that's awesome -- I've been wondering how to get that looking good. Not that I'm really too concerned with it looking good right now -- but I can see myself being concerned about it in the future. This resource should be in the Library.
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Now that's awesome -- I've been wondering how to get that looking good. Not that I'm really too concerned with it looking good right now -- but I can see myself being concerned about it in the future. This resource should be in the Library.
Thank you very much for putting me in the Library, honoured!
Anyway, there'd should be some happy customers reading this forum too :)
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ABS is always worth fixing -- my $0.02...
Agreed, I'll add my $.02 to the conversation as well.
I fixed mine with Tosi's repair of its brain and it has worked ever since.
Although I've ridden tens of thousands of miles without it, I will take any advantage in an emergency braking situation.
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To me, having ABS is sort of like wearing good gear. Might never need it but, if I do, will be really glad it's there. Mine hasn't broken (yet?) but will have it repaired if it does. ;-)
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I don't know how the laws work where you live, but in the UK, if you disconnect abs you could be opening a can of worms.
The way insurers see it, is that no matter how well they work without abs, if it's fitted at the factory then it must be working, otherwise the brakes are classed as defective.
I only know this because someone I knew had a collision with a bus that pulled out on him.
He had disconnected the abs.
He slid, ended up underneath the vehicle and sustained life changing injuries.
Because of the severity of the crash, the bike was thoroughly examined by the insurers, and the modification was found.
His insurance was declared null and void.
I ran it by my insurers some time back, because the abs on my Yamaha is obsolete and it's impossible to buy replacement parts.
I was informed that provided I had the de commissioning work done by a qualified VAT registered mechanic, could provide a detailed receipt of works, and have an MOT test done immediately afterward, then that would be OK.
Moral of the story is, run it by your insurance company.
To me, having ABS is sort of like wearing good gear. Might never need it but, if I do, will be really glad it's there. Mine hasn't broken (yet?) but will have it repaired if it does. ;-)
Exactly
Just because you wear sturdy protective gear when you go out, doesn't mean you take any less care when you ride.
You don't depend on it.
It's just a useful layer of protection for when you get it wrong, just like abs.
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I did not read the whole thread, so pardon me if I am being redundent. Did you test it yourself? I would not go by what P O tells you. It is really simple to clear the faults if that is all it needs. And testing for what code is is easy peasy with an analog multi volt meter. Have you done either of these things? It is in the Technical Library. Make sure you have a strong battery and all your grounds are solid.
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My ABS on the 95 K75 is in flashing trouble mode.
It still worked the other day when I put the binders on pretty strong.
I am contemplating the reset diagnostics this fall when things slow down for me. I may remove it.
I'd like someone to tell me how ABS can help me on a wet curve at speed? On a straight trajectory, I get how great they work.
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I'd like someone to tell me how ABS can help me on a wet curve at speed? On a straight trajectory, I get how great they work.
Checking your line and gauging your speed entering is what will help you on a wet curve. After misjudging speed or conditions in a wet curve, ABS might shorten stopping distance if you've managed to stand up the bike, straighten your line and are headed off the road into the woods or a cliff, but sometimes nothing will save your bacon. That's part of the fun.
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but sometimes nothing will save your bacon. That's part of the fun.
If it can't kill you it's not a sport, it's a hobby.
The ABS1 on my 93RS reacts so slowly, that I have decided I am better off without it. After 40 years on BMW's, I think that I can check and release faster than ABS1 does. Now the ABS on my 2013 GS is a different story.
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I'd like someone to tell me how ABS can help me on a wet curve at speed? On a straight trajectory, I get how great they work.
same way as in a straight line, only better. by preventing wheels from locking, it allows you to steer and brake.
and yes, despite the fact that ABS1 is relatively primitive, it still works faster than the typical rider can modulate brakes (no matter how good the rider thinks they are).
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and yes, despite the fact that ABS1 is relatively primitive, it still works faster than the typical rider can modulate brakes (no matter how good the rider thinks they are).
Methinks your opinion of the "typical rider" is masquerading as a fact about all riders. ABS1 is EXTREMELY primitive (i.e. slow). I cannot outperform the ABS on my 2013 GS, but I can markedly outperform the ABS1 on my K11RS, so it is destined for the dustbin. You are, of course, free to disbelieve and disagree.
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same way as in a straight line, only better.
I think having either ABS system could be helpful but there are exceptions.
Here's one condition where it might be better if ABS could be disconnected. :hehehe Freshly graded rural Class 3 roads with 6% grades or steeper are another. Having the appropriate bike for the terrain might help too but sometimes you've got to work with what you've got. The skill and judgement of the rider will rule regardless—with an accommodation to gravity, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrD65i3FUcU
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Man that video is scary! :mbird I still am amazed every time I watch it that he stayed upright and on the bike! :nono ABS not the best for dirt roads.
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Really.........all this over ABS? Motorcycles have been successfully ridden for a long time without some electronic brake over-ride. The early initiatives to market fuel injection, ABS, and other technology was promoted because Japanese bikes were faster, more model variety, and less expensive. That doesn't mean a 20-25 year old ABS is a sacrosanct safety technology! That's rubbish.........keep it as long as it works, take it off when it fails! Good Grief, Charlie Brown! This is too much about too little! :musicboohoo:
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Methinks your opinion of the "typical rider" is masquerading as a fact about all riders. ABS1 is EXTREMELY primitive (i.e. slow). I cannot outperform the ABS on my 2013 GS, but I can markedly outperform the ABS1 on my K11RS, so it is destined for the dustbin. You are, of course, free to disbelieve and disagree.
no, i did not say all riders. i said typical. there is a small percentage that can actually do better than a first gen system. how many riders actually practice repeated threshold braking level stops....all the time? ya gotta to that to be able to use that skill instinctively in an emergency.
i teach high performance and competition driving in cars. 100% of the students THINK they are really good drivers immediately. 1% actually are. none of them can outperform the abs in even 80's vintage bmw's.
in racing conditions, i know of zero race car drivers that would disable the abs because they think they can do better. not even the really good drivers. I don't race with abs because the rules i race under do not allow it. i would reinstall abs immediately if i could, even an early system. abs is an advantage. period.
to Laitch's point....in REALLY slippery conditions (like loose sand and snow/ice) abs does not work well. why? there is so little traction that the tire won't start rolling once stopped. best option in those conditions is to actually lock and hold the wheel locked. in the dry or on a wet road, abs of any generation is an advantage.
my point is that unless you ARE really good, not just THINK you are good, it is best to keep and fix any abs system if you want to maximize your braking performance.
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Motorcycles have been successfully ridden for a long time without some electronic brake over-ride.
LOL! by that logic we should all still be using chisels and stone as writing implements because it worked successfully before.... time and technology have moved on. can you still ride a bike without abs? of course! is it the best solution available? no.
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OK, Mlytle, I hear you on big bikes on the highway being advantaged with ABS, BUT, there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider. That means ABS is a marketable system, but definitely no essential. I have had ABS and non-ABS bikes over the years, even when BMW gave the option, so I respect modern technology. But if my 25-30 year old K's lose ABS functionality, I don't think spending money on old technology rebuild is worth the expense. Remove the ABS, and keep riding.
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i teach high performance and competition driving in cars.
Must not translate to motorcycles then. I won't be taking riding advice from someone who counsels that ABS allows the rider to brake to the point of ABS intervention while turning. ABS, especially the older variants, is not a silver bullet that suspends the laws of physics. Laitch gave the proper counsel - brake, then turn. Otherwise your remaining seconds might be better spent preparing your heart for God.
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/2013/october/oct0913-new-cornering-abs/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/first-rides-tests/2013/october/oct0913-new-cornering-abs/)
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Laitch gave the proper counsel - brake, then turn.
Racers operate in a different world though.
In that world they manipulate the laws of physics that punish the rest of us. They can brake right into the apex of a corner then throttle through it. I could learn to do that but I'd need to increase my premium in Medicare Part C because it takes me longer to heal and I'd rather spend the money on riding, and chainsaw parts.
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KTM had to come up with something to counter their huge marketing blunder when they rejected sponsorship of the Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman Long Way 'Round project—leaving BMW to cash in on it. This is a good try anyway. :giggles
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there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider.
Is that why traction control has become standard fitment on race bikes
:hehehe
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Traction control is for wheel spin/slip,not the same as anti-lock brakes.
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Traction control is for wheel spin/slip,not the same as anti-lock brakes.
WOW
REALLY YOU DON'T SAY
:clap:
Fact is, it is still a rider aid, designed to cut in when the rider get's it wrong.
JUST LIKE ABS.
Same principle
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BUT, there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider.
Is that why traction control has become standard fitment on race bikes
You're both right—sort of! See here (http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/08/14/the-motogp-question-traction-control) and this June 2014 article (http://www.cycleworld.com/2014/06/12/exclusive-interview-with-brembo-engineer-lorenzo-bortolozzo-ducati-factory-rider-andrea-dovizioso-on-motogp-braking) extract from Cycle World with Brembo engineer, Lorenzo Bortolozzo:
CW: In 2016, ABS will be obligatory on all bikes sold in the European market. ABS is prohibited in Formula 1 and MotoGP. What is your opinion of ABS in racing?
L.B.: ABS is perfect for the street rider, but in racing, it should be the rider who controls. Probably ABS would be safer, but racing is also a test of the rider, and so for the show, I don’t think ABS would be good.
Time for a group hug and selfies all around!
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Sorry, but it's just a bit silly to declare that abs has no relevance because racing bikes don't use it.
On a race track, everything is traveling in the same direction, and racers don't have to worry about Granny Smith pulling out of a side road across their path with inches to spare.
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. . . racers don't have to worry about Granny Smith pulling out of a side road across their path with inches to spare.
She does make good apples though.
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Sorry, but it's just a bit silly to declare that abs has no relevance because racing bikes don't use it.
On a race track, everything is traveling in the same direction, and racers don't have to worry about Granny Smith pulling out of a side road across their path with inches to spare.
You are getting yourself wrapped around the axle. He never said it wasn't relevant. He said it was not essential. If it was, then all us older riders would already have succumbed to Granny Smith, which we haven't. It is not essential - especially the older low performance adaptations of it.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Random-stuff/i-BpjKTMg/0/O/chill%20pill.jpg)
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If that pill is too large, chop it up and add it to a smoothie in the Vita-Mix.
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The thread began as a question of whether to repair non-functioning ABS, particularly Gen1, and I stated my view that you can ride without ABS instead of the expensive repair of older technology. You have jumped in with both feet talking about racing applications of technology. I never stated "no relevance". Maybe you could start a new thread to talk about racing technology applications. Maybe you should chill.
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You have jumped in with both feet talking about racing applications of technology.
WTF
there is a good reason ABS is not used in multiple racing series........that reason is that ABS is not essential, it is counterproductive to put an electro-mechanical over-ride on a skilled driver/rider.
So we see it was actually you who bought racing technology into the discussion.
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Stick to the thread topic, bikesnbones, this isn't a "Yes,But" forum.
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Stick to the thread topic, bikesnbones, this isn't a "Yes,But" forum.
But it was you who bought racing into the discussion, so you are in no position to point the finger and accuse anyone of going off topic.
You are very skilled at avoiding questions though.
Are you a politician by any chance.
:hehehe
As regards the question, if you ask if it's worth repairing or replacing your defective abs, the question you are actually asking is, if abs is needed or not.
What other reason would there be to ask.
Let's see if you can answer that simple question without the BS this time
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Avoiding questions??? Let's make this simple.......you own a K-Bike you payed $2500 for which just had ABS failure. The ABS replacement parts cost $1900....hmmmm fix it or take it off? Got the funds? Maybe keep riding?
The answer is do what you want as you see it......I would not spend the money.
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Mr. bikesnbones doesn't just believe that ABS is relevant, he worships it. Without it, the bike is a death sentence.
:falldown:
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Avoiding questions??? Let's make this simple.......you own a K-Bike you payed $2500 for which just had ABS failure. The ABS replacement parts cost $1900....hmmmm fix it or take it off? Got the funds? Maybe keep riding?
The answer is do what you want as you see it......I would not spend the money.
I'll make it simpler.
The K bikes sold in big numbers, and for a relatively long period.
What that means is that used spares are plentiful.
I can go to Motorworks or James Sherlock, and buy replacement or reconditioned parts for a fraction of the cost of new, and they'll come with a warranty.
In fact I did exactly that with a previously owned R1200S, and it came to just over £350 sterling for the pump, with me doing the work admittedly.
This one for example, comes with a 15 day guarantee.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-BMW-K1100-RS-RT-K1100RS-ABS-PUMP-AND-MODULE-ASSEMBLY-/361622058110?hash=item54325ab47e:g:UVQAAOSw-KFXdDtG
Mr. bikesnbones doesn't just believe that ABS is relevant, he worships it. Without it, the bike is a death sentence.
:falldown:
I think abs is a good thing yes, but could you show me exactly where I said or implied that any bike is a death sentence without it.
Perhaps you just make it up.
Not the sharpest tool in the box are you.
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Not the sharpest tool in the box are you.
If a hammer weren't the sharpest tool in the tool box, that wouldn't make it a bad hammer, would it?
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Let's get real simple..............cost-benefit..........you don't spend money if it is more than the value......you junk it!
You are arguing the wrong question....ABS accessory value. What you have failed to comprehend is that nobody but you give a shit about arguing about ABS. That's not the point.........if at some point you can't repair, modify, adapt, you junk it or part it. As the famous political advisor, James Carville, stated:" Its the economics, stupid"
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What you have failed to comprehend is that nobody but you give a shit about arguing about ABS.
:hehehe
And yet here you are, doing just that
Let's get real simple..............cost-benefit..........you don't spend money if it is more than the value......you junk it!.
Did you actually read my post.
Maybe you go crying off to the BMW spares counter when something goes wrong, but anyone with any sense knows that there are a myriad of used spares specialists who will supply quality, and sometime reconditioned parts for a fraction of the cost of new.
I speak from experience.
I had a beautiful K1100RS before my LT.
The engine went bang.
Cylinder 2 overheated, totalled the piston and knackered the bore.
According to your logic, I should have thrown the bike away, but I didn't.
I found a replacement engine, and all was well again.
I did all that for well under the cost of buying another RS in similar condition.
Is it viable to fix an ABS system.
Well for under 100 bucks (see earlier link), and a few hours in the garage, I would say it's definitely worth giving it a go, rather than just give up, like you clearly do.
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Is there an "ignore" feature on this board? I have a pressing need for one, but being not the sharpest tool in the drawer I can't locate it. I thought this forum was pretty free of dick-wavers, but one this way cometh.
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Is there an "ignore" feature on this board? I have a pressing need for one, but being not the sharpest tool in the drawer I can't locate it. I thought this forum was pretty free of dick-wavers, but one this way cometh.
Erm
Is someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read my posts.
Do you really need a button to ignore ?
Wow.
:hehehe
Oh, and it seems my opinions are not unique
ABS is always worth fixing -- my $0.02...
Well said.
:clap:
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Here's the summary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y
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That's clever, Laitch! How do you find this stuff?
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Here's the summary.
All I'm suggesting is that it might be worth reinstating the abs using parts from a reputable source.
I can't understand why one or two people resent that suggestion so much.
This can be done at a fraction of the cost of new.
I posted a link to a complete abs pump unit for under 100 bucks.
That said, in answer to the OP.
Nine times out of ten, abs faults can be traced back to faulty sensor(s) and even the battery.
If you can't do it yourself, it would be worth dropping into your local BMW dealers who can read the fault codes.
There will be a charge, but it's usually nominal.
It's silly to write it off before you have carried out this simple test.