Post by: Rokah on October 14, 2019, 06:46:11 AM
General state: Bad. broken foot rest plates (PNs 46711457234 & 46711454485). Bent back brake foot lever. Rusted forks. Rusted gearbox oil plug (07119919143). Broken headlight glass. Bent front brake lever & handlebar. Cracked vacuum plugs (13547694924)
Rust in the battery strap (and installed incorrectly): PN 61211459044
Sulfate in battery holder and rusted Vibration dampers (PN61211233028 )
Petrol tank installed incorrectly, missing (PN 16112309163) vibration dampers and missing retention clips PN07129934336
Battery: around 5. (The clock is still running though)
Brakes. Front brake works, back brake doesn't. The reservoir is empty
Coolant level: low
Oil level: On the lowside but still has some.
Spark plugs: horrible condition, they had screw terminals and I believe this bike had a solid terminals (Bosch X5DC or NGK D7EA)
Fuses: all OK
The goal is to make it start before doing anything else; I have the feeling the last guy who worked on this bike didn't have a clue on what he was doing.
Post by: Rokah on October 14, 2019, 06:46:31 AM
However, it now cranks with force and Injectors spit fuel
Bottom line: electrical systems seems in top condition and grounding of the battery looks ok.
I think the next step I will take is to remove all fuel in the fuel lines/injector rail.
What do you think I should test next? Fuel pressure or compression? Should I go directly for the compression test?
Post by: daveson on October 14, 2019, 08:08:43 AM
Post by: Rokah on October 14, 2019, 09:00:57 AM
Fix all these faults you have found, especially the vacuum leaks. Put a bit of oil in the cylinders to improve sealing. Give it a service.Will do!
Is this a regular cranking noise?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ikKFshWSoBtZCKnE7
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/ikKFshWSoBtZCKnE7)
Post by: Laitch on October 14, 2019, 09:25:41 AM
Is this a regular cranking noise? Should I go directly for the compression test?The sound it makes during starting is not unusual. Limit the duration to five seconds. Disconnect the battery or connect it to a tender when you aren't working on the moto.
A compression test is uncomplicated. Do it. Check each cylinder with the throttle wide open. After the first reading of a cylinder, repeat after spraying some oil into the cylinder to see if that raises its value significantly.
Top up the coolant. Change the oil and filter. The fuel tank should be cleaned. The fuel filter should be replaced. The tank interior fuel lines should be replaced with new 30R10 lines. The valve clearances should be checked and adjusted if necessary. The new spark plugs' gaps should have been checked before installation. The air intake and filter should be checked for restrictions; the muffler outlet should be checked for restriction. The z-tube crankcase-to-airbox connection should be checked that it isn't severed.
After doing all that, try starting it.
Post by: K1300S on October 14, 2019, 11:30:38 AM
Post by: Soggz on October 14, 2019, 12:17:20 PM
Post by: Rokah on October 18, 2019, 12:46:11 PM
Spark Plugs were set somewhere around 0,6&0,65
These are the compression tests I did:
| Test | Cylinder 1 | Cylinder 2 | Cylinder 3 |
| Without adding oil | 75 PSI | 0 PSI | 150 PSI |
| Adding 5cc of oil to each cyl | 100 PSI | 0 PSI | 160 PSI |
As you can see, cylinder #2 is dead, and cylinder #1 is low on compression.
regarding the valves I measured the following clearances:
| Test | Cylinder 1 | Cylinder 2 | Cylinder 3 |
| Inlet | 0.15-0.20 | 0.15-0.20 | 0.15-0.20 |
| Exhaust | 0.20-0.25 | 0.25-0.30 | 0.15-0.20 |
As far as I understand I have to change the shims on the exhausts valves of cylinders #1 and #3
I am thinking I will have to dismantle the head of the engine and check the condition of the head gasket, hopefully my its not the piston rings.
What would you do?
Post by: Laitch on October 18, 2019, 01:10:27 PM
I don't understand your measurement results. There should be one value for each valve, not a spread of values. Because these figures don't make sense, I wonder if your compression technique might be flawed alsoWhat would you do?
Test Cylinder 1 Cylinder 2 Cylinder 3 Inlet 0.15-0.20 0.15-0.20 0.15-0.20 Exhaust 0.20-0.25 0.25-0.30 0.15-0.20
Explain exactly how you tested the compression and exactly what type of tool you used to perform the test.
Post by: Rokah on October 18, 2019, 01:30:47 PM
Compression I measured using this https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B074CT56FF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B074CT56FF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). Removed all the sparkplugs, and then fitted the gauged and cranked the engine with the throttle open until the gauge reached a maximum. Then, repeated for the rest of the cylinders
Post by: Laitch on October 18, 2019, 01:57:09 PM
You need to do a leak-down test if you don't have a camera like the one in the attached video that can look around via the spark plug hole. These cameras are surprisingly inexpensive. They are called borescopes. #2 and #1 might have severely damaged valves and/or valve
seats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6pjtceXogc
Post by: Rokah on October 18, 2019, 02:21:01 PM
Thanks for the help!
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on October 18, 2019, 02:26:36 PM
If it were mine, I'd pull the head and take a good look. If there's damage, I'd be looking for a used head at ebay and a new head gasket.
Post by: Laitch on October 18, 2019, 02:51:28 PM
I'm guessing that you have some burnt exhaust valves.I agree. The odd part is valve clearance is good on the worst cylinder. There could be broken valve springs in the mix.
If it were mine, I'd pull the head and take a good look. If there's damage, I'd be looking for a used head at ebay and a new head gasket.
Take your time. Use plenty of heat, penetrant and impact on the head bolts before attempting to loosen them.
Post by: Rokah on October 18, 2019, 03:40:27 PM
The odd part is valve clearance is good on the worst cylinder.
yuuuuuup that I find weird as well! I'll get back with updates!
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on October 18, 2019, 04:06:54 PM
You don't need to know how I know this.
Post by: Rokah on October 30, 2019, 05:33:35 AM
Make very sure you have a new tight fitting Torx wrench of the proper size to remove the head bolts. There are two types of Torx wrench, regular and heavy. Later model bikes use the heavy. The head bolts have a lot of torque on them, and the heads are easy to strip out.
You don't need to know how I know this.
I doged that bullet!
It looks like I've found the reason for the missing compresion on cyl#2
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/IMG_20191028_191839.jpg)
should I worry on how bad the cylinders look?
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/20191028_191955.jpg)
To replace the valves, should I replace all of them, or can I just replace the broken one/ones?
Post by: Laitch on October 30, 2019, 09:00:57 AM
Post by: johnny on October 30, 2019, 10:00:05 AM
you sparker orientation looks like a you gotts a low and a high simotaniously on the weather map...
that caint be good...
20191030_085315.jpg (32.12 kB . 324x576 - viewed 586 times)j o
Post by: Laitch on October 30, 2019, 11:03:57 AM
Post by: Laitch on October 30, 2019, 11:43:42 AM
Post by: Rokah on October 30, 2019, 12:20:31 PM
greetings...
you sparker orientation looks like a you gotts a low and a high simotaniously on the weather map...
that caint be good...
j o
omg :-)
Calm down gents, those spark plugs are loose! I put them in just to take the picture.
I'm going to buy a new valve and get a quotation for a head and valve resurface
Any more suggestions?!
Post by: Chaos on October 30, 2019, 12:53:49 PM
greetings...
you sparker orientation looks like a you gotts a low and a high simotaniously on the weather map...
j o
Does anyone index spark plugs anymore? Does it even matter?
Post by: johnny on October 30, 2019, 01:55:59 PM
it matters... thats why i use e3 exclusively...
that and 10 moar horsepower with diamondfior technology... (https://e3sparkplugs.com/motorcycle-spark-plugs/)
thats 2.5hp a hole... you would getts 7.5hp combined on your minibrick.. itsa game changer for sure...
Screenshot_20191030-125443.jpg (30.66 kB . 403x576 - viewed 554 times)j o
Post by: Chaos on October 30, 2019, 04:14:35 PM
Post by: Laitch on October 30, 2019, 06:04:36 PM
I'm going to buy a new valve and get a quotation for a head and valve resurfaceGet the head analyzed by somebody who is experienced. Cylinder #1 is compromised. You're likely to need more parts than just one valve.
Any more suggestions?!
it matters... thats why i use e3 exclusively...I bought cubic zirconia-tipped plugs from Alibaba and saved 20%.
Post by: Martin on October 30, 2019, 06:34:00 PM
Regards Martin.
Post by: alexg on October 30, 2019, 06:54:17 PM
Also, with high compression engines, I am not fond of resurfacing heads unless there is no way to reinstall successfully. Why resurface the head? Is it warped or corroded? A good bead cleaning should be enough. Take all the valves, not just the burned one.
Post by: Rokah on November 11, 2019, 03:29:35 AM
After cleaning, this is the state of my exhaust valves and valve seats. What are your opinions? Is there a way I could avoid the BMW tax of around 150€ for the cracked exhaust valve?
I am also worried about the valve guides being too loose. I removed the Oil seal and when open the valve can wiggle around 0.5mm :S
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191109_132252-e1573460604313.jpg)
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191109_131628.jpg)
Post by: Laitch on November 11, 2019, 07:08:27 AM
Download the K75 K100 2V manual from this site. Go to its Engine section index. Go to the Specification section within that index. In that section are listed the allowed clearances of parts throughout the engine. If your description of both the part and its clearance is accurate, your measurement seems to indicate excessive wear.
Watch this video for measurement technique. It isn't child's play and needs accurate measurement tools and technique. Let us know your results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=91&v=LIL1lV_xtHI&feature=emb_title (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=91&v=LIL1lV_xtHI&feature=emb_title)
Post by: alexg on November 11, 2019, 07:43:52 PM
Changing valve guides is repair shop territory: warming up the head in a control temperature oven (not over your kitchen range), driving the old guide out without banging anything else, driving the new guide all the way to the spec height w/o misalignment, and then, machining the seat to have it concentric with the new guide, and shaving it to spec width. Not impossible, but requires practice, and a lot of special tools.
I agree that the price of an exhaust valve is exorbitant, but for an exhaust ventile, might not be :(
Curious: how many miles in this bike; for the wear of the valve seal surface, a lot.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on November 11, 2019, 09:23:43 PM
Another option would be to look for a used head with good valves. You should be able to get the head squared away for the price of a couple good tires.
Post by: riots100 on November 11, 2019, 10:58:04 PM
Post by: Rokah on November 12, 2019, 02:14:12 AM
Thanks for all the answers, I had the head in the trunk of my car waiting to be taken to a friend of mine that has access to a CMM (coordinate measure machine) but I took it to the machinist directly as he was not going to trust my measurements anyway.... As soon as he saw the valve play he mentioned changing the guides. So I asked him to give me a quote on replacing all the valve guides and doing the seats. I've seen at realoem.com that the valves have a +Core note beside them (plus core charge (possibility of a return of the old part)) I will try to contact the mothership to see if they offer discounts for bringing the old in.
I agree that the price of an exhaust valve is exorbitant, but for an exhaust ventile, might not be :(
Curious: how many miles in this bike; for the wear of the valve seal surface, a lot.
97k miles according to the dash (157k KM)
By removing the head and getting the valves out, you have done the worst part of a valve job. Take the head and the valves to an automotive machine shop for a quote rebuild the head.It has really been a breeze up to now! Both with a few workshops in Madrid an with you guys. Lets see how well the machine shop quotation treats me.
Another option would be to look for a used head with good valves. You should be able to get the head squared away for the price of a couple good tires.
looks like we are having parallel stories.
Any shop that rebuilds cylinder should be able to take care of yours. I had a local machine shop rebuild mine from my K75 and it went smooth as silk. The shop I went to also offered cleaning bath as well. The only parts that were replaced were the valve guides.
Post by: Rokah on November 26, 2019, 03:48:05 PM
What do you think about these parts. Should they be replaced?
Chain tensioner (plastic part)
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191126_200956.jpg)
Chain tensioner (metal part) Is that dent normal? should I worry?
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191126_200931.jpg)
I believe this pump shaft is OK
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191126_200807.jpg)
State of rubber screw gaskets
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191126_201035.jpg)
pump shaft seal
(http://35.202.179.92/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_20191126_200859.jpg)
Post by: Rokah on December 03, 2019, 02:02:47 PM
Post by: Laitch on December 03, 2019, 02:50:33 PM
. . . do the big end connecting rod bolts need to be replaced once the are loosened?.The bolts don't need to be loosened. Are you using a manual?
Post by: Rokah on December 03, 2019, 03:15:11 PM
The bolts don't need to be loosened. Are you using a manual?
Then how do you remove the pistons?!
I'm on step 5 of this page: http://www.bmw-k100rt-page.eu/manual/Engine/examinationEngine_22.htm
Post by: Laitch on December 03, 2019, 04:41:27 PM
Then how do you remove the pistons?!You remove the nuts on the ends of the bolts. The bolts stay in the rods, the piston is pushed out of the cylinder by pushing against the inside of the piston with a hardwood dowel or any suitable object fit for the purpose that won't damage metal parts. This is explained in Part 10, steps 6 and 7 and illustrated by a photo show the bolt in place.
The first rule of performing any procedure is read the entire procedure first—maybe a couple of times—then think about it, answer questions you might have about it, then start it.
Post by: riots100 on December 04, 2019, 11:35:26 PM
Post by: Rokah on January 01, 2020, 05:43:42 PM
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on January 01, 2020, 05:52:38 PM
Post by: Rokah on January 02, 2020, 12:40:53 PM
Piston + Rings (I got a deal)
Big end bearing shells
Big end bolts
Full head(All 6 valves+guides+guide reaming+ seat recut + surface)
New head gasket
new original pump seals
and then the basic maintenance pack, filters(air + fuel + oil)
All o-rings and seals were also changed including the copper ones.
Post by: The Mighty Gryphon on January 02, 2020, 01:06:59 PM