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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: pinhead on February 23, 2018, 08:04:44 PM
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I changed the oil last time with a tune up kit which included oil filter and oil I got from beemer boneyard. I just tried to remove the oil filter and when I put the tool on it, it just slips. It does not turn the oil filter. Anyone ever encounter this problem and know of a solution? thanks
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Drill two (or more) holes through the bottom of the tool and filter, insert self tapping screws.
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+1 on screwing the wrench to the filter
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I like this technique (http://www.motobrick.com/index.php/topic,8248.msg63737.html#msg63737), for its dramatic effect.
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Or you could maybe put something in the cup of of the filter wrench to tighten up the fit. I think I used a thin rag and it was enough to get the filter turning.
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Or you could maybe put something in the cup of of the filter wrench to tighten up the fit.
j o recommended sandpaper in one thread.
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I will try the sandpaper. I tried the rag already. The first filter change I did on this bike was easy, even though the filter was on a long time. It was a BMW filter and the walls of the steel was thicker and stronger with no deflection.
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The first filter change I did on this bike was easy. . .
Your difficulty now likely means you over-tightened the filter then. The Boneyard supplies Mahle filters in their kits and they should work if you have the proper OEM wrench. Hi-Flo filters will work with that wrench, too. There should be no difficulty removing a used filter. Oil changes should be done on engines that have been run up to operating temperature. If sandpaper inside the wrench doesn't grip enough to remove the filter, the screws-through-the-filter-wrench-and-into-the-filter method should work.
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Make sure that when you do get the filter out, that the o-ring comes with it..... before you put the new one on.
I've had an o-ring stick to the block before.
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How tight are you going when you install your filters? WIth oil on the gasket you only need to go another 1/4 turn once you feel the resistance to turning. You are not tightening a nut.
One of the problems with the way the filter is installed on these engines is that you can't really install it without the wrench. That is bad because you can't really feel how much torque you're using. Makes it too easy to overtighten.
I replaced a mechanic who overtightened oil filters with a wrench on all the boats he worked on. My first year there, I destroyed over 50 filters trying to get them off. Oil changes took me over 2 hours most of which was screwing around with the filters. I spent a lot of time in engine compartments cursing that guy.
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I did not over tighten this oil filter. The problem is the top of the filter is flimsy and soft steel. When I first put the wrench on it, I was not able to apply any torque before the end cap began slipping. Regarding the surface of the end cap of the filter, you can push it in with your finger if you push hard enough. No way after 3000 miles of running, exposure to heat that it would stand up to the standard bmw endcap wrench. I have read on this board others who bought filters from beemer boneyard had same problem. And no, they are not mahle they are bosch. I bought their six pack deal (which I hope I can return) and they are bosch also. Walmart, I believe, sells bosch filters. Junk.
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I did not over tighten this oil filter.
Of course you didn't.
At least you now know how to remove it and what not to get. :2thumbup:
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I'll put in my plug for Hi-Flo oil filters that re-enforces Laitch's earlier recommendation. I bought a box full of them many moons ago and they've worked a treat. Cheap as chips to boot.
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The problem is the top of the filter is flimsy and soft steel. ..... I bought their six pack deal (which I hope I can return) Junk.
in the interest of preserving BBY's good name, I've never heard of filters being graded by the quality of their sheet metal. Glue, relief valve, filtering media and density. Fram seem to take the blunt of online abuse for cheaply made filters. So long as they don't leak, flake off (Fram's grippy stuff) blow out or get stuck on I'm ok with just about any of them. I have a selection of filter wrenches due to my inclination to use whatever fits, always been able to find one that works. :riding:
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So as I understand you, you have crushed the end of the filter that the wrench fits over? I have used the same filters you have from BBY. I did not find the filter to be the problem, but the wrench would slip as the flutes are pretty shallow on the wrench and the filter! If you know this going into it, you can snug up the fit by reducing the size of the wrench with a light rag in the cup of the wrench when you remove the filter. I would shy away from sandpaper, but that is just me. Maybe some crocus cloth where the abrasive surface is bonded much better to it's backing. Good luck. Be patient. You may need to get creative.
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Jam a long screwdriver through the side of the filter and twist.
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Jam a long screwdriver through the side of the filter and twist.
This is the method that I have used without fail for the few times that I've had this problem.
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Jam a long screwdriver through the side of the filter and twist.
I have tried this with auto filters and if they are really stuck on, it just tears the filter up and makes a mess of things. YMMV :dunno
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Any filter that is going into a blind hole and is as flimsy as the bosch ones I have are means you are not going to wind up with anything but trouble. Gripping the filter by its last 1/2-1 inch end with a few ripples to engage the tool requires stronger wall strength than a filter on a car where a strap wrench has access. Gee I wonder if the reason why you pay $23 for a BMW oil filter. might be that there is really something different about it? Just a thought......
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Never had any trouble with Mann MW712's. Supposedly one of the original suppliers.
Regards Martin.
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After all these tightening techniques using special wrenches or tools why not just hand tighten the filter? I have 2 K bikes both high milage and that's my method. No rocket science in it at all, just keep it simple, that's it.
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I have 2 K bikes both high milage and that's my method. No rocket science in it at all, just keep it simple, that's it.
Moving the handle of a ratchet wrench 180º is about as simple as it gets, and not particularly dependent on grip strength.
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Moving the handle of a ratchet wrench 180º is about as simple as it gets, and not particularly dependent on grip strength.
Elbow click.
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Elbow click.
Not everybody has crepitus.
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Not everybody has crepitus.
Conspicuous by its absence.
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"Moving the handle of a ratchet wrench 180º is about as simple as it gets, and not particularly dependent on grip strength."
Of course you mean 90 degrees. Just sayin? I usually go a bit more, maybe 120.
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There are a ton of filters that fit K bikes that cost less than $7. I use the AC Delco PF-53 or it's Carquest equivalent(that's the store in my town) for $6. Both of these filters are strong enough to handle the wrench I use on them for removal.
When you install the filter spin it on with your fingers. Make sure the body is dry as well as your fingertips. Wipe up all the old oil around the hole and put some on the gasket. Spin it until you can't spin it anymore. Then get your wrench and give it another 1/4 turn. These are the instruction from the people who make the filters and they are universal.
If you are using a wrench to spin the filter on you have no feel for when the gasket makes contact, and you will overtighten it every time. I've installed and removed about 7-800 filters over the past 10 years on boats in some pretty ugly places and never used a wrench. Not one of them ever leaked. You have to be able to feel the gasket make contact, I can't overemphasize that.
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+1 on the pf53, my choice for the last 150k or so. and overtightening can squish the gasket out of place with very bad consequences. I have never used a wrench to tighten a filter, if I can get a couple fingers on it I can get it tight enuf.
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Am I missing something here?
Tighten the new filter hand tight plus a quarter turn... It won't leak. How would you know if it leaked any way, it's incased in a cavity inside the motor that is sealed up with an O-Ring and three allen head bolts.
I'd be more concerned with the drain plug leaking then the oil filter.
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in the interest of preserving BBY's good name, I've never heard of filters being graded by the quality of their sheet metal. Glue, relief valve, filtering media and density. Fram seem to take the blunt of online abuse for cheaply made filters. So long as they don't leak, flake off (Fram's grippy stuff) blow out or get stuck on I'm ok with just about any of them. I have a selection of filter wrenches due to my inclination to use whatever fits, always been able to find one that works. :riding:
Of which tools are in the selection of tools you say you have that work in this situation?
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Of course you mean 90 degrees. Just sayin? I usually go a bit more, maybe 120.
No. I meant 180º after contact. AKA 1/2 a full rotation.
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Never had any trouble with Mann MW712's. Supposedly one of the original suppliers.
Regards Martin.
Mann are high quality filters. I use them on my porsche for both fuel and oil.
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in the interest of preserving BBY's good name, I've never heard of filters being graded by the quality of their sheet metal. Glue, relief valve, filtering media and density. Fram seem to take the blunt of online abuse for cheaply made filters. So long as they don't leak, flake off (Fram's grippy stuff) blow out or get stuck on I'm ok with just about any of them. I have a selection of filter wrenches due to my inclination to use whatever fits, always been able to find one that works. :riding:
There is a hugh difference in the filtering capacity of oil filter manufacturers. One of my car clubs did an experiment and bought a filter from each manufacturer for a specific vehicle. These filters were ran on the vehicle and then dissected. We cut the filters in half and found a hugh difference in the qualities and materials of construction in them. Some of the filters simply collapsed their paper elements and the oil never got filtered and the end stage of use. As probably you are aware, oil filters are by pass flow, and if they plug up the oil simply is rerouted directly back to engine with no filtration. I remember Fram being one of those where the elements had collapsed though there were others. Wix and Mann were the best quality filters which we tested.
Regarding the good name of BBY, when I opened the box of the 6 filter oil change kit I purchased, I received 6 filters, 6 oil plug washers, and only one o ring for the oil filter cover. I guess that means the one o ring is good for 5 more oil changes?
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I guess that means the one o ring is good for 5 more oil changes?
It varies, but 6 is ballpark. Incidentally, there's no reason to unscrew the drain plug if you're changing the filter. Not too messy draining the oil through the filter access plate if you're careful
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+1 on the pf53, my choice for the last 150k or so. and overtightening can squish the gasket out of place with very bad consequences. I have never used a wrench to tighten a filter, if I can get a couple fingers on it I can get it tight enuf.
I agree with that. I hand tighten only. In fact on some vehicles where I have good access to oil filter I also remove with my hand without need for filter wrench using a rag to cover for heat insulation.
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Had my Brick a long time. I bought lots of OEM filters two to three at a time which kept me out of trouble. I was getting them for a good price from a non dealer. When I ran out I went back to where I had got them from and he had a different brand. I tried to get a local supplier of Mahle filters but I couldn't find a supplier. I then got onto a local supply of Mann filters and have been using them ever since. They are a lot dearer than others but I would rather spend a bit more and be sure of the quality. I don't drink coffee so what I save on latte and cappuccino I put into filters. And I think I'm still ahead money wise. :dunno
Regards Martin.
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It varies, but 6 is ballpark. Incidentally, there's no reason to unscrew the drain plug if you're changing the filter. Not too messy draining the oil through the filter access plate if you're careful
Using an o ring over 5 times in a use as vital as for a seal maintaining the oil in an engine? Hard to believe......
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I don't think I've changed my o ring more than 4 or 5 times in 32 years. Once I had it leak but it was pretty obvious as soon as I put oil in it. You can tell when the ring starts to flatten out.
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Am I missing something here?
Tighten the new filter hand tight plus a quarter turn... It won't leak. How would you know if it leaked any way, it's incased in a cavity inside the motor that is sealed up with an O-Ring and three allen head bolts.
I'd be more concerned with the drain plug leaking then the oil filter.
The oil flow design would take into account the pressure exerted by the resistance of the filter. If oil was to leak past the filter gasket, oil pressure throughout the system might decrease (I would think) because now oil can find a less resistive path. That could have consequences for the lubrication and cooling in the engine.
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The oil flow design would take into account the pressure exerted by the resistance of the filter. If oil was to leak past the filter gasket, oil pressure throughout the system might decrease (I would think) because now oil can find a less resistive path. That could have consequences for the lubrication and cooling in the engine.
What would the oil pressure switch be doing?
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the oil pressure switch come on somewhere around 5-8 psi? not really sure. The only blown k75 engine I've ever seen that was when the owner accidentally missed that the sealing ring from the old filter was stuck to the block and put a new filter on top of it. It blew out on the highway, by the time he noticed the red light and heard funny noises that motor was toast.
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What would the oil pressure switch be doing?
One thing it does when oil pressure drops in a Brick is activate the low oil pressure light in the instrument cluster. The bike's operator should shutdown the engine then try to determine the cause. In some vehicles the oil switch signal might also trigger an automatic engine shutdown to prevent severe damage.
Tightening an oil filter is a tactile task. It doesn't matter whether it is done by hand or using wrench. The mechanic needs to be aware of when the filter gasket contacts the mounting flange then snugs it after that. Some manufacturers or manuals have suggested one-half to three-quarters of a full rotation; some have suggested one-quarter rotation; some have suggested just hand-tightening which, of course, would depend upon the strength of the hand that is tightening the filter and the awareness of the hand's operator.
If a mechanic is distracted, is unable to follow instructions, or is unable to believe valid instructions for one reason or another, moaning and gnashing of teeth by somebody somewhere is the likely outcome.
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One thing it does when oil pressure drops in a Brick is activate the low oil pressure light in the instrument cluster. The bike's operator should shutdown the engine then try to determine the cause. In some vehicles the oil switch signal might also trigger an automatic engine shutdown to prevent severe damage.
Tightening an oil filter is a tactile task. It doesn't matter whether it is done by hand or using wrench. The mechanic needs to be aware of when the filter gasket contacts the mounting flange then snugs it after that. Some manufacturers or manuals have suggested one-half to three-quarters of a full rotation; some have suggested one-quarter rotation; some have suggested just hand-tightening which, of course, would depend upon the strength of the hand that is tightening the filter and the awareness of the hand's operator.
If a mechanic is distracted, is unable to follow instructions, or is unable to believe valid instructions for one reason or another, moaning and gnashing of teeth by somebody somewhere is the likely outcome.
Yep,yep and yep. Correctly so. Engine management will activate. Bricks are well designed.
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Engine management will activate.
If I don't shut down my bike's engine when the low pressure light comes on because of a pressure drop, nothing else will except a spun bearing or thrown rod.
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No. I meant 180º after contact. AKA 1/2 a full rotation.
:nono Gheez! Really. I should know better. What was I thinking(not thinking!) :dunno :giggles