Stuck on side of the road... (clutch?)

[bobmusick]

So here is the shaft and clutch. I think the clutch only needs replacing, the shaft seems fine (to me at least)

[bobmusick]

With regard to the sealant I was talking about, it's green and between the transmission and it's housing cover.

[Laitch]

I think the clutch only needs it, the shaft seems fine (to me at least)

From what I can see, it looks too worn to work well. Try another head-shot with the entire splined surface exposed. I'm basing my current opinion on the low height of the splines at the front, and the drop and taper of the splines from the rear to the front of the shaft. The depth doesn't seem adequate to transfer torque successfully.

[Elipten]

Looks highly worn to me, but some better photos are in order.  But I would not put it into my bike.


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[jakgieger]

Years of working with machines, gearboxes, and pto shafts has taught me that if you put "rounded" teeth engaging on  "new" teeth, failure will result.  The only question is the amount of time.  Since there are irregularities in the mating surfaces you also introduce the elements of vibration and possible shedding of metal fragments.  Neither situation is desirable if you intend long term operation.  I went through a similar scenario in a farm truck.  I first tried to rig it "on the cheap" with used mismatched recycled parts.  The third time I fixed it, it cost a new input shaft, several bearings, and a new output shaft.  It was in a pulling truck and under severe load, but the principles involved are identical. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Martin]

+ 1 From what I am seeing it looks like a clutch plate and a shaft replacement. The shaft might last for a little while but  its on the way out. A worn shaft with also cause excess wear on a new clutch plate.
Regards Martin.

[Elipten]

Before you put money into the bike, show us the drive shaft and rear drive splines. 

How many miles on the bike?

Your plans? 

If you intend to ride for ever, replace clutch disk and transmission input shaft or the transmission.

If selling and screwing the buyer, then new clutch disk, grease it and sell it to an unsuspecting person and live with yourself.  I could never do it, but many do.


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[Laitch]

. . .  show us the drive shaft and rear drive splines. 

+1

[bobmusick]

Here's a better view of input shaft. Seems like general consensus is to just go ahead and replace that too. And now that I'm looking at it, seems like most of it is pretty worn anyways. Bike has ~46k on it and I plan on keeping it for who knows how long, so it would just make sense to fix it up right the first time while I'm in here already.

[Martin]

See what is available in used gearboxes might be cheaper and easier. I had a look at Ebay they start at $80.00 and go up to $400.00
and that was in UK and Germany. I would try your Ebay and Craigs list just make sure it has got good shafts.
Regards Martin.

[bobmusick]

One more angle

 

[Laitch]

One more angle

I think you should find a replacement but first, let's have a look at the final drive and driveshaft splines.

[bobmusick]

I think you should find a replacement but first, let's have a look at the final drive and driveshaft splines.

Dang more work huh. Alright, climbing into bed now but I'll be sure to find time tomorrow for it.

[Elipten]

You can see it is highly worn.  Look at the raised section at the transmission end.

New shaft or good used transmission.  But let's see the final drive and shaft as this bike could cost you a lot more than you plan.

Or at least know the pain that could be coming.


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[Laitch]

Bike has ~46k on it

I think that odometer reading doesn't jibe with the condition of those splines unless the bike was used to haul bags of cement and concrete blocks to building sites or the transmission was out of alignment.

Are there a couple of locating dowels on the transmission or intermediate housing mating surfaces? An example is indicated in the attached photo.

Locating dowels.jpg (43.79 kB . 480x360 - viewed 411 times)

[Andy FitzGibbon]

I wouldn't put it back together that way.  As jackgeiger says, splines that worn will cause premature wear on their mating splines in the new clutch, and the problem will eventually occur again.

That seems like an excessive amount of wear for 46k. I have mine apart now, at 45k, and the splines have virtually no wear. I can take a photo later today to illustate the difference.


I wonder if your instrument cluster was replaced- which is fairly common- and the odometer wasn't reset to the correct mileage. Or, perhaps the transmission was replaced with a higher-mileage unit. It'll be interesting to see the condition of the driveshaft splines.


Andy

[jakgieger]

I wonder if your instrument cluster was replaced- which is fairly common- and the odometer wasn't reset to the correct mileage. Or, perhaps the transmission was replaced with a higher-mileage unit. It'll be interesting to see the condition of the driveshaft splines.

+1+1+1 Somewhere here there is an anomaly ...further investigation is required (driveshaft and fd) if you intend to keep the bike.  The good news is that if you fix it correctly, it will last.

[Motorhobo]

I think that odometer reading doesn't jibe with the condition of those splines unless the bike was used to haul bags of cement and concrete blocks to building sites or the transmission was out of alignment.

Are there a couple of locating dowels on the transmission or intermediate housing mating surfaces? Examples are indicated in the attached photos.

You don't have to haul cement to get splines that look like that in under 10kmiles -- all you have to do is center the clutch improperly on install. I know -- I fried a clutch disk that way and now have a useless transmission box with splines that look exactly like that. So -- center the clutch properly and if it vibrates more after the job than before, do it again till you get it right. 

[bobmusick]

Alright, so shopping for clutch now, seeing two different kinds, one for RS and LT models. I have the LT, so I'm wondering if it matters. I'm assuming it does, but if it doesn't, would there be benefits to getting one over the other?


Thanks!

[Laitch]

The screwdriver is long enough to go through the spring plate and into the clutch nut/crankshaft. That should centre everything properly, right?

No. Now quit hijacking this thread.

[Laitch]

Alright, so shopping for clutch now, seeing two different kinds, one for RS and LT models.

Just get the part that is specified. It will make life more simple for you. If it isn't available then start searching for alternatives. Will you please answer my query about the locating dowels?

[Motorhobo]

I used such a homemade tool a couple times with success. I have the Lively too and that worked better a coupe times but somehow the last time I used it I must have screwed it up or the clutch parts weren't aligned right or...I don't know -- all I know is there was more vibration after than before and several thousand mikes later the clutch disk and input shaft were chewed up. I still don't know what I did wrong. Next time I used clutch parts from a different bike and it seems fine. All you can do is do your best and be prepared to get in there again if the results don't seem right.


F14CRAZY will tell you you don't need a special too of any kind to get the clutch centered right. There's a thread in which he describes how he does it...

[Martin]

If the clutch is out of alignment the normally gearbox wont slide on. Use long bolt with the heads cut of to make fitting easier and also make sure as per Laitch that you have the alignment dowels fitted.
Regards Martin.

[bobmusick]

Are there a couple of locating dowels on the transmission or intermediate housing mating surfaces? Examples are indicated in the attached photos.

So looks like I have only one of those little dowels unless it fell out. Will look around for it but it didn't seem like it was there.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Looks like you have a leak too... the clutch nut O-ring, the rear main seal, or maybe both.


Andy