Starter not turning the motor

[Tiny97]

OK I've been reading as much as I can on the whole Sprage Clutch issues and I know that's whats causing this issue.

The history of this bike: 1997 K1100LT Owned by my father since 06 ridden by him maybe 6 times the last time was in 2010. I received the bike non-running as is the custom in my family of sending the non-running vehicles to me that I fix and ride/drive for years after. Flushed the brakes, and coolant, drained the fuel tank. Playing around with seeing if it would do anything it fired up took it around the block, discovered a caliper dragging repaired that, found the front master leaking, rebuilt that.

After running it a few times starter started to skip/grinding sound not catching. Read everything I could find about the starter issue, replaced oil is Mobile 1 15/50 and half a bottle of CD2 detergent.

It was hard to bump start at first since it was still groggy from sleeping so long. its getting easier to bump start now and I've done a few runs for about 100 miles total so far. BMW has me quoted for $1100 to replace the sprage clutch if it comes to it that's what I'll have to do. My question is if there is anything extra I could be doing to help the sprage clutch free up. Do I need to run it in high revs for a continuous 100-200mile trip. is that sprage clutch bathed in motor oil or the gearbox oil?

I can't start working out any of the other quirky small issues with the bike till it starts reliably. Thanks for any help and Sorry for the long post.

On the plus side it went from me and a few friends pushing for 30-40min trying to get it started to me bumping it in the driveway solo and leaving.

[Scott_]

Well the gear is not submerged in the engine oil, but it is lubricated/ with it inside the intermediate housing.
About all you can do, short of dismantling the intermediate housing assy(between the engine block and the transmission) is to keep your detergent in the oil and run the engine to keep the oil flowing.

I'm not sure if just letting it high idle on the center stand(in neutral) for an hour or two(or longer),would give enough lubrication to really clean up the gear assy.

Another option you might consider, pull the starter and try some spray degreaser in/around the gear inside the housing.

[Tiny97]

originally I had looked at pulling the starter as I was expecting a Bendix assembly to be the issue when it was doing its grinding not catching issue but since mine is a 97 it has the ABS2 and I didn't want to mess with those connections unless an issue arises with the ABS.

I've tried tapping the housing with a rubber mallet while hitting the start button as well. Managed to get it to engage once doing the 5th gear roleback. Though rolling it back in 5th to scuff it up has been more work than just bump starting it.

Would there be any adverse effects to say over filling the oil just to get the sprage clutch soaking in oil for a day or two then draining the oil and filling to the propper level? Is the sprage clutch to high up to achieve a soak in oil?

I'm not opposed to being forced to ride this bike all day to work the oil into the sprage clutch. grab a buddy leave in the morning and ride till night. (buddy in case i need a hand bump starting at a fuel station)

[Scott_]

Yea, I think it's too high a location to "over-fill" and soak it.

I suppose if you picked up the front end of the bike and stand it up vertical you could submerse it............  :hehehe

Don't think that laying it on the left side would do any good either.

[Tiny97]

IDK I would think standing it up vertical would really put the main clutch gasket to the test... be very likely that if it did fix the starter it would destroy the clutch and I would still be cracking it open. lol

Guess I'll just be riding the snot out of it hoping it frees up.

[TimTyler]

Get a second opinion, but you might try doubling or even tripling the CD2 treatment for 100 miles of real riding.  :dunno

It took a bottle of Rislone  AND a bottle of CD2 and 100 miles to free mine up. I changed out the oil after that and it's remained unstuck with Mobil 15w50 for a few thousand miles.

[K75RT Keith]

I think I'd throw the balance of the CD2 and do a couple hundred miles in a day at higher rpm s. 100 miles likely wouldn't have been enough to clear up the sludge build up 

[Tiny97]

Perfect! Thank you so much! its exactly what I was hoping to hear. Not knowing I didn't want to go too crazy with the CD2 wasn't sure if it would thin the oil too much or if it would have any adverse effect on seals or gaskets. I've kinda thought that 100+ miles I've done wasn't going to be enough. hopefully this weekend I'll have killed 300 miles and freed up the starter.


Don't mind the bump starting, I need the exercise...

[johnny]

if my sprag was whack i would do the following...

drain what you gotts in there... cause its a brick... prolly go 2 qts mobil super 10w-40 and 2 qts ris for a couple hun... drain and go 2 qts mobil super 10w-40 and 2 qts valve medic yellow bottle for a couple hun... drain and go 2 qts mobil super 10w-40 and 2 qts cd2 for a couple hun... if still f-ed drain and go go 2 qts mobil super 10w-40 and 2 qts seafoam for a couple hun... if still f-ed drain and replace filter and fill with mobil 1 15w50 and park on a hill...

j o

[Tiny97]

Johnny I like the idea of riding that much... if after all that it doesn't help do I park facing up the hill or down?

[rbm]

If you take Johnny's good idea of changing the oil, maybe use a diesel oil like Rotella T6 5W50 synthetic.  Diesel oils usually have higher detergent content to counter the higher combustion residue.  The strong detergent content will help with the gummed sprag clutch.

[Tiny97]

the Mobile 1 in there now has around 100 miles on it. I'll add the rest of the CD2 and run 200 miles this weekend then drain and fill with diesel oil and do another 200-400 miles and see where I stand.

[K75RT Keith]

Put the rest of the CD2 in the oil and go out for a two tanks full of gas,couple hundred mile ride.  100 miles isn't enough to ungunk a really fouled sprag.  Detergent takes a while to dissolve or break free the accumulation.  A LONG ride will do more to bathe the sprag than a bunch of short jaunts.

[TimTyler]

To maximize detergent flow onto the sprag gear, ride like this:

[Tiny97]

400 miles today still no change in the sprag, gonna try and change the oil tomorrow and add some more CD2. is it better to use mobile 1 with CD2, diesel oil alone or diesel oil with CD2 or seafoam? first 200 miles were nearly one stretch non-stop. second 200 miles were broken up a bit. was becoming a long day.

Update 7/9/14: I have been riding to work every day bump starting has me ready to join the bobsled team. Today I bumped the starter button and got the clacking grinding sound I got just before the sprag stopped spraging and so we have improvement. 2 more long trips this coming weekend crossing fingers this may be coming back.

[Tiny97]

I think I'd throw the balance of the CD2 and do a couple hundred miles in a day at higher rpm s. 100 miles likely wouldn't have been enough to clear up the sludge build up

As I'm still "training for the bobslead team" with this bike I felt it would be good to ask what higher rpm's means? I've done somewhere around 1000 miles now with no real improvement. It did get a slight grind sound the other day but no motor turn over yet. most the bike has seen is around 5k rpm's or should I be running in 3rd on the interstate staying just shy of redline? Sorry I'm just used to slow turning Vtwins so 5k rpms is what I would normally consider high but feel I might be staying short of where I need to be.

[Scott_]

There are some dyno charts out on the net, but suffice to say that the power band of the 4cyl is in the 4500rpm area.
I regularly wind mine up near 7k for short bits, ohhh it runs so sweet.

[Tiny97]

In regards to how high the rpms should be to splash the sprag enough to free it up though?

[Motorhobo]

In regards to how high the rpms should be to splash the sprag enough to free it up though?

I don't know if that question can be answered definitively -- but I can say that 5000 rpms isn't enough to get this engine working. 5000 rpms in 5th gear will barely get you to 80mph. 5500 gets you to 85mph. 7000 rpms gets you to around 100mph and you know it's working.

I ran my k75 to 60mph in 3rd at about 7k rpms today -- no problem -- coulda gone for hours like that. When I had the CD2 in my other K75 I ran it at 90 - 105 mph in 5th for at least  couple hundred miles. Following some nutjob leadfoots on I-295 in NJ...I hate it when people drive like that but I hate it worse when I can't keep up.

Don't be afraid to run a Kbike at 7k regardless of which gear you're in. If you want to throw oil around inside that's the way to do it, I'd think.

My $0.02 -- As always corrections or contrasting experience welcome -- if high rpms in 3rd has some drivetrain consequences I'm hoping someone will chime in...

[Tiny97]

ok good thats kinda what I was thinking but the trip i made with my buddie on his vulcan when he heard i was following him in 3rd at 60mph he freaked out saying it was a terrible idea.. weather is supposed to be better the next few days sounds like its time to flog the old girl a bit

[K75RT Keith]

Your buddy on the Vulcan would think 3500 is wound way up.  Bricks are in their power band at 6 -7k.  +1 to run it hard  at high RPM's.