Double Whammy -- starter clutch and ignition fail - RESOLVED

[Motorhobo]

How this came about you can read here:

http://www.motobrick.com/index.php?topic=5168.0

But the bottom line is that after phase 1 of the restoration,  the starter clutch won't engage and bump starting fails. So I can't run the bike to do the detergent treatment to address the starter clutch issue and I can't turn the engine over to address any ignition issues.

I put this on hold after bumpstarting failed because I'm not sure the best way to proceed from here and could use some help. My next step is to make sure all the ignition and fuel supply contacts are solid and clean. Then I'll pull the tank, starter and FI unit and put them on my other K75 to make sure they work. After that--I don't know.

Can I get solvent or cleaner onto the sprag clutch through the starter port or by removing the crankcase cover? If so, kerosene is recommended as solvent/cleaner, then detergent in the engine oil. A good buddy of mine has also recommended automatic transmission fluid as solvent/cleaner to replace the engine oil for a couple hundred miles once I get it running. Also -- can I disconnect the spark plugs and try to turn the engine over using the starter with the crankcase cover off and no oil, just until it turns over once? I don't want to have to try lubricating the sprag clutch, then replacing the cover, then doing it again if it wasn't sufficient the first time. All I want to do is engage the sprag clutch so the engine turns over once...or will even that damage the engine?

If I don't get the starter clutch working -- how can I diagnose ignition problems if I can't turn the engine over using the starter/battery? You see my dillemma...or maybe there is no dilemma and I'm missing something. I'm not experienced at all in electrical troubleshooting but I do have a multimeter. Normally I would look for spark at the plug but unless I can turn the engine over, there will be no spark and no fuel and the only way to get spark and fuel without a starter is to bumpstart and to be honest...that's a sh*tload of physical labor that I would very much like to avoid. Plus it's hard to diagnose in the two seconds it takes for a pushed bike to stop rolling if ignition fails...

Any help?

Thanks...

Van Albert

[TimTyler]

So the starter just spins?

[Motorhobo]

Yup. BTW I did take the starter apart to check the brushes and it was fine. When I hit the button, it whirrs but no engagement with the engine. But who knows...maybe I did something bad to it inadvertently. I'm going to put in the other K75 and see if it starts. But I really don't think the starter is the problem.

V

[TimTyler]

You could just give the starter 12v on your workbench and see if it spins.

If you put the bike in 5th gear on the center stand can you turn the engine by rotating the rear wheel? I think I read that a sticky sprag sometimes resets when you roll the bike backwards.

[Motorhobo]

I can turn the engine over from the rear wheel with a little muscle. Rolling it backwards in fifth had no effect.

Does anybody know if it's possible to lubricate the starter clutch by removing the crankcase cover and exposing the engine that way?

[johnny]

last time i heard of this situation the starter would not engage because it was spinning backwards...

j o

[Motorhobo]

Seriously? That sounds like something I could have done -- I was kind of in a hurry with the starter and wasn't really all there. But power comes from the battery and my understanding is that the starter is grounded through the headlight circuit. So I couldn't have swapped power and ground. Looking at the fiche, I can't see anything I could have installed backwards or upside down except maybe 13...



johnny, do you have any details about how that occurred? I don't think there are many possibilities but I will pull the starter and have a look. If it's that, it's definitely much easier than anything having to do with the starter clutch -- unless the reverse rotation screwed something else up. Are there any ramifications of such a bozo-esque move?

Van

[Motorhobo]

Here's the answer to the starter running backwards problem --

http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?56040-K75-Neutral-Sensor-Problem

Read down the thread.  I'll keep y'all posted...

Van

[rbm]

Also read this thread

[Motorhobo]

Well, the ignition problem isn't resolved yet but I'm happy to say the starter is working and the engine is turning over...the starter was in fact rotating backwards. In my case, I had either the housing on the wrong way or the bottom cap 180 degrees on wrong, as I could see when I compared it to that of my other K75. Either way, it works and I'll sleep tonite.

So now I at least can make an attempt at figuring out why it won't start.

Thanks for the pointer in the right direction...

Van