Author Topic: Key on but no power (Read 34416 times)

Big_B · « **on:** April 04, 2013, 10:53:02 PM »

My K1100 has a new issue. With the key on there's absolutely no power to anything. All my connections are good. I know I've read something about it here before but I'm having difficulty finding the thread.

Does anyone here have the information of what's going on?

TimTyler · « **Reply #1 on:** April 04, 2013, 11:29:22 PM »

Bad connection at the kill-switch?

johnny · « **Reply #2 on:** April 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM »

could be a dirty starter... if so... with key off... put it in 2nd and roll it backwards from the saddle... when you get it rolling let out the clutch to spin the starter backwards... do that a few times...

j o

Big_B · « **Reply #3 on:** April 04, 2013, 11:49:42 PM »

Quote from: johnny on April 04, 2013, 11:42:52 PM

dirty starter... if so put it in 2nd and roll it backwards from the saddle... when you get it rolling let out the clutch to spin the starter backwards... do that a few times...

j o

Yes I did that about 5 times and all my lights came on, but they quickly went back out. I'm guessing the remedy is to take the starter out and clean it? Or is there more to it than that?

johnny · « **Reply #4 on:** April 04, 2013, 11:56:39 PM »

keep doing it... it will clear up... then when you have time you can pull the starter and dump the powder out...

j o

Big_B · « **Reply #5 on:** April 04, 2013, 11:59:50 PM »

Ok great! I'll keep doing it and let you know what happens. Love the wealth of information here, thank you. :)

Big_B · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2013, 12:15:40 AM »

Just rolled it backwards about 20 times and the same thing happens. With or without the key on, when I roll it backwards and pop the clutch all the lights come on but quickly turn off. Should the lights come on when I do this with the key off?

Scott_ · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2013, 07:05:37 AM »

Quote from: Big_B on April 05, 2013, 12:15:40 AM

Should the lights come on when I do this with the key off?

No, that does not sound normal. Admittedly I can't say that I have tried to do the same thing with my bike, but if the key is off, all should be off.

I'm thinking along the lines of Johnny, go ahead and pull the starter and clean it good, probably also may have to replace the starter brushes. Clean the brush contact area too.

The circuitry of the bike uses a "load shed relay" that turns off all extra unnecessary load when you press the start switch so all battery power is available to turn the starter. The engineers connect the part of the relay coil circuit THRU the starter. When the starter relay is energized, with 12v power applied to the starter post, the lsr is "de-energized" and extra load is turned off. When the starter relay is then turned off, bike running etc..... the lsr is then "energized" to turn all the extra stuff back on.

If the current pathway thru the starter is excessively dirty(high resistance) it cannot pass the "low" current required to keep the lsr energized.

Hope I explained it well enough to help you without confusing you.

Big_B · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2013, 08:06:35 AM »

Quote from: Scott_ on April 05, 2013, 07:05:37 AM

Quote from: Big_B on April 05, 2013, 12:15:40 AM
Should the lights come on when I do this with the key off?

No, that does not sound normal. Admittedly I can't say that I have tried to do the same thing with my bike, but if the key is off, all should be off.

I'm thinking along the lines of Johnny, go ahead and pull the starter and clean it good, probably also may have to replace the starter brushes. Clean the brush contact area too.

The circuitry of the bike uses a "load shed relay" that turns off all extra unnecessary load when you press the start switch so all battery power is available to turn the starter. The engineers connect the part of the relay coil circuit THRU the starter. When the starter relay is energized, with 12v power applied to the starter post, the lsr is "de-energized" and extra load is turned off. When the starter relay is then turned off, bike running etc..... the lsr is then "energized" to turn all the extra stuff back on.

If the current pathway thru the starter is excessively dirty(high resistance) it cannot pass the "low" current required to keep the lsr energized.

Hope I explained it well enough to help you without confusing you.

Hi Scott,

Thank you for the quick reply. Yes I totally understand what you're talking about. I'll clean the starter and see if it fixes it. Hopefully I can avoid a trip to the dealership to drop off my paycheck. I didn't understand that BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet" until I owned one...lol.

Big_B · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2013, 08:57:33 AM »

I just remembered one more clue that seems to fit the dirty starter theory. About 3-4 months ago, I noticed that my headlight wouldn't work briefly while driving. Then it would kick back on. Does this symptom support a dirty starter?

Jumpin Jimmy B · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2013, 09:08:27 AM »

On this..

"
Hi Scott,

Thank you for the quick reply. Yes I totally understand what you're talking about. I'll clean the starter and see if it fixes it. Hopefully I can avoid a trip to the dealership to drop off my paycheck. I didn't understand that BMW stands for "Bring My Wallet" until I owned one...lol.

With ALL the FABULOUS help on this blog BMW just means bring more wrenches. :hehehe

On another note. You do NOT need to buy a NEW starter from the dealer or ANYWHERE else. It can be rebuilt.

This place in Milwaukee, WI does outstanding work. / Billings Re builders / Starters 414-643-9086

I'm thinking there must be a service closer to you, but if not, be an informed consumer and at least call them to get a price.
Should be about 1/3 to 1/2 of a new starter BUT!!! IMHO the rebuilt will be better than a new mass produced starter as it will ALL get a complete make over.

I had them do the starter and armature on my old twin. Been AOK for 70,000 + miles. Better that stock. I am very impressed with their service.

Also have has some car alternators done by them. The care ones usually cost what the cheapo Auto store replacement would cost, but after a rebuild I never had one go bad again for the life of the car and I keep my vehicles a long time.

Good luck!

"

Scott_ · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2013, 11:00:09 PM »

Quote from: Big_B on April 05, 2013, 08:57:33 AM

I just remembered one more clue that seems to fit the dirty starter theory. About 3-4 months ago, I noticed that my headlight wouldn't work briefly while driving. Then it would kick back on. Does this symptom support a dirty starter?

Yep, sure sounds like to to me.

JamesInCA · « **Reply #12 on:** April 06, 2013, 02:21:26 AM »

I've read about this dirty starter not passing current thing a dozen times, but it's never made sense to me.

On my '87 K75, the LSR wire is right on the post that feeds the starter from the starter relay. Nothing goes "through" the starter - as long as the starter relay is passing power, the LSR gets power, regardless of the internal condition of the starter.

Are other years wired differently, or am I just missing something?

billday · « **Reply #13 on:** April 06, 2013, 09:32:00 AM »

Here's a completely different culprit to consider:

http://www.eilenberger.net/K75S/IgnitionSwitch/index.html

Inge K. · « **Reply #14 on:** April 06, 2013, 08:00:08 PM »

Quote from: JamesInCA on April 06, 2013, 02:21:26 AM

On my '87 K75, the LSR wire is right on the post that feeds the starter from the starter relay. Nothing goes "through" the starter - as long as the starter relay is passing power, the LSR gets power, regardless of the internal condition of the starter.

, or am I just missing something?

The LSR coil is grounded through the starter, when you push the starter button the LSR coil isn't grounded
anymore and the contacts open.

Inge K.

Big_B · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2013, 09:56:18 PM »

Quote from: billday on April 06, 2013, 09:32:00 AM

Here's a completely different culprit to consider:

http://www.eilenberger.net/K75S/IgnitionSwitch/index.html

Great find! I'm going to look into the ignition switch if cleaning the starter doesn't fix it.

Big_B · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2013, 04:23:47 PM »

Ok I found the issue in the ignition switch. But now I forget where the negative wire off the battery attaches to the motor/chassis. Feeling pretty stupid right now. :dunno2:

TimTyler · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2013, 04:56:54 PM »

Try squirting a little WD40 into the switch followed by turning the key back and forth a few times to see if that fixes it.

cmichael · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2013, 05:02:48 PM »

I got my bike for a song for similar reasons, the two issues I had were a dirty kill/start button(sandpaper and contact cleaner plus dielectric grease fixed that one), the second was the ignition switch, the bike was fine but if you nudged the key it would move ever so slightly and kill all electrics(can't remember how I rectified that one, I know it involved copious amounts of contact cleaner).

Needless to say the PO was stumped after replacing all the relays, the battery, and most of the cabling(he was an electrical engineer too! :dunno2:)

TimTyler · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2013, 05:08:43 PM »

Remember, dielectric grease is non-conductive. It is electrically insulating. Don't use it on electrical contacts.

Jumpin Jimmy B · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2013, 05:09:55 PM »

On this.

" Ok I found the issue in the ignition switch. But now I forget where the negative wire off the battery attaches to the motor/chassis. Feeling pretty stupid right now. "

Don;t feel bad, that's whay we are all here together!

It's on the left side of bike, down behing the drivers foot rest. Look straight back and a little up and too the rear.

Big_B · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2013, 08:04:25 PM »

Quote from: Jumpin Jimmy B on April 08, 2013, 05:09:55 PM

On this.

" Ok I found the issue in the ignition switch. But now I forget where the negative wire off the battery attaches to the motor/chassis. Feeling pretty stupid right now. "

Don;t feel bad, that's whay we are all here together!

It's on the left side of bike, down behing the drivers foot rest. Look straight back and a little up and too the rear.

So that would be attached to the ABS pump mount then? I originally hooked it up to the post on the starter and all my lights came on. But knew something was wrong when I hit the starter button and the positive started sparking & the lights went out. :falldown:

kioolt · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2013, 09:39:31 PM »

For the ground connection, look at the gear shift shaft. Then go straight up about three inches. You should find a tab on the top of the transmission where the ground cable goes.

Big_B · « **Reply #23 on:** April 09, 2013, 10:37:06 AM »

Quote from: kioolt on April 08, 2013, 09:39:31 PM

For the ground connection, look at the gear shift shaft. Then go straight up about three inches. You should find a tab on the top of the transmission where the ground cable goes.

This makes sense to me. Heading out to put her back together. Thank you for all the help offered here!

Big_B · « **Reply #24 on:** April 09, 2013, 11:34:08 AM »

Just when I think I'm out of the woods. Now my starter & lights all come on with the key off. I've checked the load sharing relay and it looks mint. I'm going to check the starter relay to see what I can find. This has proven to be quite the issue!

Anyone have any ideas? Remember I made a mistake and hooked the ground to the starter post. The ground is in the proper spot now. :yow

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Author Topic: Key on but no power (Read 34416 times)