BMW vs HD

[WayneDW]

It's a different scene here by the sound of things... HD, BMW (and other US / euro / UK brands) are massively in the minority - it's pretty much all jap with chinese ones slowly catching up in numbers around here. So far this year I'd say I've seen maybe 3 HDs and about 5 or so beemers with japs a daily spot.

Yes, this thread hasn't mentioned Honda yet.  I think they beat HD here in sales numbers too.  The article I was quoting had a news blurb about Honda selling more than HD in 2012 but the numbers included ATV sales and I don't know how much that skews the comparisons.  But they definitely whip BMW in sales.

[wmax351]

It's a different scene here by the sound of things... HD, BMW (and other US / euro / UK brands) are massively in the minority - it's pretty much all jap with chinese ones slowly catching up in numbers around here. So far this year I'd say I've seen maybe 3 HDs and about 5 or so beemers with japs a daily spot.

Most of the non-jap machines are quite expensive too, you'd be lucky these days to get an HD suitable as a parts bike for under £3k (unless I'm looking in the wrong place) :laugh Old, high mileage Ks (like mine) can be had for reasonable money if you look hard enough or happen to be in the right place at the right time though.

People use bikes as transportation, not toys.

[motodude]

Something I noticed when I rode cross country: If it weren't for Harleys, there would be very very few motorcycles on the roads. Also, more than once a Harley guy pulled up when I was stopped on the road to make sure I was OK. I've never seen a Harley I'd want to own, or even ride, but I'm glad they're out there.

When I'm out traveling around in the summer, I see a lot of Harleys.  Usually small groups of two-up geezer-glides.  Retired couples, mostly.  And, usually on small two lane roads or in small towns.  On the odd occasion I travel on the freeway, I see a lot more Goldwings.  I prefer the Harley folks.

[pdg]

stuff

People use bikes as transportation, not toys.

Sorry, but I don't see your point in relation to my post...

[wmax351]

stuff

People use bikes as transportation, not toys.

Sorry, but I don't see your point in relation to my post...

There are far more bikes in Europe, compared to the US. Inexpensive and reliable standards make a lot more sense for the average person.

[Westone]

Most of the non-jap machines are quite expensive too, you'd be lucky these days to get an HD suitable as a parts bike for under £3k (unless I'm looking in the wrong place) :laugh Old, high mileage Ks (like mine) can be had for reasonable money if you look hard enough or happen to be in the right place at the right time though.

I just bought an '88 K75S with 91K miles and am waiting on it to be delivered. I have been shopping for an affordable yet reliable used bike of any brand for 2 years now. And I generally agree with the above statement based on my experience. In the past I have owned several Harley's: '74 XLCH, '80 Lowrider, '89 Heritage. They all had issues, though the '89 was dependable enough it just leaked oil like a sieve. And I imagine now HD is probably far more reliable than in those days. It is the marketing that has put them where they are in sales numbers. And I never really appreciated all of the brand promotion, in fact it is a turn off for me. Any machine is a compromise of possible strengths, and brand loyalty seems to suggest that we disregard the shortcomings of a particular design. I am not an ignorant sheep to be led to slaughter on the showroom floor. I will ascertain my needs and budget, and choose a bike based on that. I don't need a marketing dept. or sales force to aid me in that.

Looking forward to the K bike.

[branandfox]

Got into a argument with one of the paramedics that came into the E.R. I work in last week. He overheard me talking to someone about all my refits I am currently doing. So after about 4 or 5 minutes of us talking he proclaims his harley davidson king of the bone heads title and starts belittling nessy. You can talk about my mother, but don't talk about nessy. after I let him rant on for a minute and he tells me, " If you were a real man, you'd ride a harley". I retort with " If I wanted a vibrator I would buy one." that shut him up good!

[argent brick]

A friend of mine is a big fan of Euro bikes.   He often gets into discussions about what is bike is best.

His normal question about HD: " Why would anyone want to ride a bike that is the choice of degenerates world wide?

Because of him, my first bike was a BMW. Next time I see him, I need to say thank you.

[pdg]

stuff

People use bikes as transportation, not toys.

Sorry, but I don't see your point in relation to my post...

There are far more bikes in Europe, compared to the US. Inexpensive and reliable standards make a lot more sense for the average person.

There are probably more bikes in Europe than the US - but most of them are smaller. In the UK at least I'd say most of the bigger (500cc+) bikes hibernate over winter and are more toys than serious transport, while commuting duties are done on smaller machines - obviously there are exceptions to this...

" If you were a real man, you'd ride a harley". (etc.)

I have nothing against the bikes, just the attitude...

Why does riding an underpowered, heavy, slow machine that doesn't like corners make you a man then? I'll even qualify those points:

Underpowered - a 1200cc engine in a bike that produces sub 100bhp. Jap bikes give more power from half the displacement.

Heavy - The 883 sportster is around 570lbs kerb weight, it's the lightest production Harley. A K1200s (or a K75) is about 500lbs and that's not a light machine.

Slow - I was at a meet quite a few years ago and a Harley-er was boasting how his 'tuned' 1200 would do 130mph, it did make me laugh when a GSXR1100 rider said "mine'll do 130mph too, in third gear"

Doesn't like corners - Well, just look at the geometry...


I know all that makes me look like a Harley-hater, but that's not the case. I'd even have one myself as a second or third bike.

[Chaos]

Underpowered - a 1200cc engine in a bike that produces sub 100bhp. Jap bikes give more power from half the displacement.

Heavy - The 883 sportster is around 570lbs kerb weight, it's the lightest production Harley. A K1200s (or a K75) is about 500lbs and that's not a light machine.

Slow - I was at a meet quite a few years ago and a Harley-er was boasting how his 'tuned' 1200 would do 130mph, it did make me laugh when a GSXR1100 rider said "mine'll do 130mph too, in third gear"

Doesn't like corners - Well, just look at the geometry...

Had to laugh here.  My Ural has 40hp, weighs 750lbs, tops out at 65mpg, and handling is bazaar to say the least.  A Fat Boy would look like a rocket ship compared to it.  But this is the first time in 30+ years I've ridden year round with a crazy grin the whole time.    None of those criteria define what riding is all about.  Enjoy what you want, don't judge those without your exquisite taste too harshly   :yes

[pdg]

If you read the last bit, I even said I'd own and ride an HD.... My argument was it doesn't make you man any more or less than your ural does (I'd quite like a ural too, or a dnepr which is pretty much the same).

Let's be fair here, a K bike isn't overpowered, light or massively fast either. Like you say, nothing there defines riding (for everyone), some people want/need all of those things to enjoy a bike while others don't. If you want to only use your bike on the 3 hottest and driest days of the year then go right ahead, just don't say I'm wrong for riding when it snows or choosing a different make.

[Qdude]

Function over Fashion...

'nuff said.

[wmax351]

Then the Harley "Night Train" version. The only thing I think of when I hear "Night Train" is Night Train Express.

[Qdude]

That and the Ford Thunderbird.

[wmax351]

That and the Ford Thunderbird.

Some quality E&J Gallo wines right there. Haha.

[latunabernie]

I have 2 Harleys & 3 BMWs.
I ride whatever bike I feel like riding.
Each bike has it's good & bad points.
The Sportster & GS 650 are a blast for comuting in the city.
The Fatboy & K-75 I use for longer trips.
H-D is missing the boat, They should build a touring bike using the V-Rod motor.
I also have a 67 Triumph Bonniville.
I hate it when I hear "I wonder how many kicks it will take him to start it"
Knowing the person saying it proberly never kick started a bike in his own life.
I have met many wonderful people on Harleys & BMWs.
I have met some jerks on Harleys & Bmw's.
A jerk will always be a jerk no matter what he or she rides.

Bernie in So. Calif.

[Chaos]

I.
I have met many wonderful people on Harleys & BMWs.
I have met some jerks on Harleys & Bmw's.
A jerk will always be a jerk no matter what he or she rides.

+1   :2thumbup:

[TaosBrick]

Its a nice contrast to the K75. A bike, where red loctite is a maintenance task.

 :hehehe :hehehe :hehehe

Too bad there isn't a "like" button on this forum.

[Brad-Man]

Daniel Webster said that "the majority of people are wrong the majority of times".

My dad has paraphrased that by stating "the masses are asses".  Perhaps the only justification left for the electoral college.

Marketing has proven itself not only in the case of HD, but by having soccer moms in SUV's they'll never use off road and getting lousy mileage in when they could be safer, get good mileage and be more comfortable in a minivan.

I have a very good friend that is a locksmith specializing in cars and motorcycles.  He doesn't do work on Harley's OR BMW's - he says that " 'most ALL of them are anal about their bikes and bitch if the person working on the bike gets a drop of sweat on 'em".

He rides a VTX1300 and jokingly gives me crap about my buying a K100.

To me, the K is a better "all 'round" bigger bike than the HD for what I want it to do, namely commute, tour (1 and 2 up), and a bit of fun in the Smokies and maybe eventually the Rockies and Cascades. 

I'm not worried about image - not with  Hi-Viz yellow jackets and Hi-Viz orange helmets, but I've already lived through one encounter with a '75 Lincoln Town Car (he won, of course - and I limp now) and will take any measures I can to avoid another altercation or even a near-miss with another vehicle when on my bike - especially with my wife aboard.

I have a co-worker who is a vehicle painter that has a Harley and we plan to ride 'em to work and go out to lunch together and will be repainting my BMW pieces this summer (I have a complete set of duplicate panels/pieces for my naked)...we don't care who rides what as long as we ride!

I have an RD 350 for the really fun stuff on weekends and on those hotter days when I don't want to work up too much sweat in traffic.

But as in almost everything, different strokes for different folks - maybe for different moods....

[greenmtrider]

For me BMW is the better choice.  HD is like ass holes every one has one,  I say this because I am the only one in my family that does not ride HD.  My uncle in his younger years owned BMW and now he rides the dark side.  With HD you pay for the name and that it's the last great thing to be made here in the US.  I can no longer ride behind them due to getting a head ache.  Also look at what you pay for in a BMW, great engineering, more bang for the buck, not so much useless accessories.  Can you get 200k on a HD without having an engine over hall?.

[wmax351]

  Can you get 200k on a HD without having an engine over hall?.

Yeah. A lot has to do with taking care of it, and not screwing with it. A stock Evolution Harley is pretty long lived. Keep a good air-cleaner on it, limit mods to jetting and pipes, possibly an oil cooler, and ride it instead of sitting around with it idling. Its an under-stressed engine (one would hope so: 60ish HP out of 1200 cc's) that is pretty well built.

[JERRY]

I have Harleys and BMW`s. The main diffrence I see is the dealership. I changed the exhaust on my 2002 Softail and needed a re-jet. I went to the dealer and he said that he would have to order it. I look around and see HD baby clothes, dog leashes, shot glasses and dart boards. They have room for all that crap but not enough room for a carb jet that is small enough to fit 30 of in a shot glass. I`m not saying that the BMW dealer always has the part I need, but it is way more likely that they will. Just my $0.02 Jerry