Author Topic: safety checkpoints  (Read 24469 times)

Offline DRxBMW

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safety checkpoints
« on: February 11, 2012, 11:06:07 AM »
Motorcycle-only safety checkpoints have revved up controversy among some lawmakers who say the inspections are another example of intrusive federal policies.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/congress-motorcycle-checkpoints.html



A measure inserted into the House transportation bill would bar the U.S. Department of Transportation from providing grants to local or state governments for such inspections.

The action grows out of a furor over checkpoints set up in Georgia last year and planned again this year under a $70,000 federal traffic safety grant.

The roadside checkpoints operate similar to the popular drunk-driving checkpoints. Law enforcement officials signal motorcyclists to pull over and then conduct on-the-spot safety inspections, checking on the condition of the bikes and whether drivers are properly licensed and complying with the state helmet law.

Similar checkpoints have been set up in New York:

Let's start pulling over the cops to make sure they are wearing their bulletproof vests and to make sure their tires are properly inflated. After all, if they got shot and injured or rolled their car in a chase it would cost the taxpayers dearly. Making sure the cops follow ALL the rules helps ensure that we as taxpayers don't get soaked for their negligence and end up covering their medical bills and needlessly repairing expensive patrol cars..
Gary
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greenmtrider

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 09:53:51 PM »
If the COP is not on a motorcycle then they have no business looking at mine.  Do they even know what to look for?????.

Offline frankenduck

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 10:13:30 PM »
Clear violation of The 4th Amendment.  (Which DUI checkpoints also violate but the USSC thought it was more important to be PC.)
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Rick G

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2012, 12:11:07 AM »
Clear violation of The 4th Amendment.  (Which DUI checkpoints also violate but the USSC thought it was more important to be PC.)
What do you suggest the police do to catch these drunk drivers? Just wait around till they injure or kill one of your family.

Offline frankenduck

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2012, 01:12:03 AM »
Clear violation of The 4th Amendment.  (Which DUI checkpoints also violate but the USSC thought it was more important to be PC.)
What do you suggest the police do to catch these drunk drivers? Just wait around till they injure or kill one of your family.

We live in the US.  The 4th Amendment states that the state can't harass you unless they have probable cause.  Just operating a vehicle on a Friday or Saturday evening does not constitute probable cause.  Even our Supreme Court acknowledged that when they made the ruling.  If you're a big fan of statism and nanny states then so be it but in the USA we have (at least historically) valued our freedom.  I'm all in favor of prosecuting people who have injured or killed others but randomly harassing everybody is not what we are or should be about.
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Offline robleyd

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2012, 02:00:36 AM »
I think Rick G would consider, as do I. that we (Aussies) are all in favour of (attempting to) preventing people from injuring or killing others. If that causes us a little inconvenience in having to go through a random booze or drug detection check it seems a small price to pay. Perhaps we accept it more readily as we have not been pampered by our constitution in the same manner as USAians :-)

Just an opinion, not trying to start a flame war.

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Rick G

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2012, 02:35:50 AM »
I certainly do agree David I consider that although I don't like " being harassed" I do like being safer on the roads and consider it a small price to pay to get the drunken idiots of the road.  Australian police are very active in this regard but saying that I probably haven't been stopped by a random breath test crew for at least 2 years and all up no more than 6-8 times in probably 10 years.  I also consider that being relatively free from drunk drivers is far better than them being free to kill and then get punished. I feel it is better for them and me that they get punished for driving drunk than driving and killing and maiming and then being punished.  A fence at the top of a cliff is far preferable to me that a whole fleet of ambulances at the bottom.

Offline wmax351

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2012, 04:44:06 AM »
Clear violation of The 4th Amendment.  (Which DUI checkpoints also violate but the USSC thought it was more important to be PC.)
What do you suggest the police do to catch these drunk drivers? Just wait around till they injure or kill one of your family.

We live in the US.  The 4th Amendment states that the state can't harass you unless they have probable cause.  Just operating a vehicle on a Friday or Saturday evening does not constitute probable cause.  Even our Supreme Court acknowledged that when they made the ruling.  If you're a big fan of statism and nanny states then so be it but in the USA we have (at least historically) valued our freedom.  I'm all in favor of prosecuting people who have injured or killed others but randomly harassing everybody is not what we are or should be about.


I think the real issue is things other than drunk (or unlicensed/uninsured) driving coming from DUI checkpoints. If you are drunk, you get arrested. But if a cop finds something incident to the DUI stop, it should not be admissible in court. The issue is focus: when you get your license, you agree to breathalyzer testing. You don't agree to all sorts of search, etc. 
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greenmtrider

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2012, 07:57:56 AM »
If you like to broaden the picture about drunk driving you will never stop some one for doing so.  There has been so many cases that the license gets pulled a couple days in jail and there back at it again.  Even the same cop that pulled you over at the check point goes out after shift has a few drinks and BANG kills some one.

Offline DRxBMW

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2012, 09:11:49 AM »
I think the real issue is things other than drunk (or unlicensed/uninsured) driving coming from DUI checkpoints. If you are drunk, you get arrested. But if a cop finds something incident to the DUI stop, it should not be admissible in court. The issue is focus: when you get your license, you agree to breathalyzer testing. You don't agree to all sorts of search, etc.

YES, a drunken driving patrol should NOT be a fishing expenditure for everything else illegal. DUI pass,valid license,registration,safety inspection & insurance and you on your way. 2 minute deal,unless your drunk of course.

Entrapped in a midnight stop during Mardi Gras revelry,zero alcohol in my system, on the bike. Cop insisted on knowing "where I was coming from and where I was going to" after producing all my proper documents ? WTF   

Pissed me off, I let that bastard have it full bore with both barrels open verbally. NONE of your business, time to pop a real drunk yet asshole,bored, need a box of doughnuts,you look FAT,yada,yada. Nothing dire enough to get me arrested but is was FUN badgering the shit out of him. If you really want RESPECT Officer Barney treat me likewise.   

Couple of years back, fire department was selling friggin hot dogs at the New Year's stop,carnival atmosphere, what a joke. 

from our local Sun Gazette newspaper about last Saturday's DUI safety patrol

DUI safety check facts:
348 motorist's stopped
12 given field sobriety tests
5 arrested on DUI charges
44 seat belt violations
77 "other violations"
121 warnings
4 marijuana arrests

PS: wife's relatives own a bar, once a DUI checkpoint is up and running, instant phone calls ping to every alcohol serving establishment in the city. he he, the Hole in the Wall bar announces the location over a Pa system.

Trapster or several other smart phone apps have the ability for advance warnings also. Ha, the kind officer will probably ask to inspect your cell phone next.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



OUR VIEW: End DUI checkpoints

The Utah Legislature is mulling over House Bill 140, which would prohibit law enforcement from setting up DUI checkpoints across the state. Pressure from law enforcement agencies and interest groups may stifle that effort, but it's the correct move.

There's no evidence that law enforcement officers, stopping drivers without cause for random checks, saves lives. According to the National Transportation Safety Administration, there's no change in alcohol-related traffic deaths between states that have the checkpoints and states that do not. A far better -- and more constitutionally correct -- solution is to have law enforcement officers conduct more saturation patrols, which involves a heavy police presence on roads with officers specifically searching for drivers using a vehicle under the influence. According to Rep. David Butterfield, R-Logan, who shepherded HB140 through the Utah House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee, saturation patrols are effective deterrences against drunken driving.

We have respect for law enforcement, that had representatives at the Legislature arguing to maintain the checkpoints. However, pulling over random motorists for DUI checks is not only a waste of time for the vast majority of drivers, it is also intrusive. It's a search that comes with no warrant and no suspicion attached. That rubs us the wrong way. As we have mentioned in these pages before, there has been a consistent increase in law enforcement excess, in all areas, in the past several years. We find it in a sinister trend and support efforts to roll back intrusive snooping on persons who should not be considered as suspicious, potential lawbreakers just because they choose to be outside.

Supporters argue that a judge has to approve a checkpoint in advance. Frankly, the fact that judges are approving these checkpoints is another reason the Legislature needs to step in. HB140 will not disallow all checkpoints. They would be retained for Amber Alerts, searches for fugitives or checks for invasive species.

Law-abiding families and individuals who go for a drive should not be inconvenienced by DUI checkpoints. It's that simple. We have those rights and we need to retain them.





Gary
Williamsport,Pa

1994 K 75 ABS "custom"
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greenmtrider

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 09:48:15 AM »
As some officers will tell you guilty till proven other wise, they can shove that some where were the sun doesn't shine.  Some law schools even teach that shit.

Offline Photog

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 06:12:30 PM »
I don't have any tolerance regarding mixing drinking with driving, but the checkpoints look like more of a feel-good operation that something that actually addresses the problem.
A few weeks ago, the Boston Globe did an expose on how MA judges let people charged with DUI walk. This link may require a login, but the articles may be available elsewhere; http://www.bostonglobe.com/2011/10/29/for-drunk-drivers-habit-judicial-leniency/ygc5IMTxIvGoqVpFV0aHFK/story.html

Now MA is trying to make valet parking attendants liable for giving keys to drunks. :dunno
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Rick G

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2012, 06:42:22 PM »
I don't know exactly how the system works in USA but here it varies state to state as I dare say it would there. Here in Queensland the police can do random breath checks but usually you have to do something that attracts their attention to pull you over.
There are also RBT teams who are independent of the local police and randomly set up a check point and every vehicle that passes that point the driver gets tested and if you are over .05ml/l then you are gone a row.
I do say that it must be random and if I thought for one minute that any particular group was being targeted I would be very quick to say so.
I have been pulled over a few times and it usually takes about 1 minute and the officer usually avoids trying to look into your car and is very polite. However I have heard the opposite from some people but that is an officer to officer thing not the police as a whole.
If the car or bike has an obvious defect usually something is said like better get that fixed and then you can go.
As for the cop asking where you are going I have been asked on a few occasions and I usually reply that it is none of their business and they back right off.
I feel that here in Oz the RBT bit has worked to a fair degree but I agree that you can never stop the DUI completly but a significant reduction is worth the effort.
On the lighter side I know one person here who was driving home drunk and ran into an elephant and killed the poor thing and when asked by the judge he said that he kept going because he saw it and decided he was seeing things. He still complained about the 6 month suspension he got though and he still drives drunk. There are some who just do not learn and he should be banned for good and jailed next time he is caught.

Offline DRxBMW

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2012, 06:46:26 PM »
I don't have any tolerance regarding mixing drinking with driving, but the checkpoints look like more of a feel-good operation that something that actually addresses the problem.
I too, have absolutely NO problem removing drunKs from the road.

Police state "safety checks" are another story. It's called "profiling" for a reason and PRACTICED by every LEO period.



Gary
Williamsport,Pa

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Offline motodude

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2012, 09:05:35 PM »
Clear violation of The 4th Amendment.  (Which DUI checkpoints also violate but the USSC thought it was more important to be PC.)
What do you suggest the police do to catch these drunk drivers? Just wait around till they injure or kill one of your family.

We live in the US.  The 4th Amendment states that the state can't harass you unless they have probable cause.  Just operating a vehicle on a Friday or Saturday evening does not constitute probable cause.  Even our Supreme Court acknowledged that when they made the ruling.  If you're a big fan of statism and nanny states then so be it but in the USA we have (at least historically) valued our freedom.  I'm all in favor of prosecuting people who have injured or killed others but randomly harassing everybody is not what we are or should be about.

Well said.

Tom
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Offline motodude

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2012, 09:19:08 PM »
In this age of universal cell phone use, check-points are really unnecessary, a waste of tax payer money and law enforcement resources.  If you see a drunk driver: 9-1-1.  It is really that simple.  After all, the supreme court has ruled the the govt. is not responsible for your safety, you are. 
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Rick G

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 09:59:45 PM »
In this age of universal cell phone use, check-points are really unnecessary, a waste of tax payer money and law enforcement resources.  If you see a drunk driver: 9-1-1.  It is really that simple.  After all, the supreme court has ruled the the govt. is not responsible for your safety, you are.
Maybe then you can tell how I can be responsible for my own safety when I cannot control the drunk drivers.  By people obeying the law and not drinking and driving can make my road use safer. If they will not obey the law then they should be taken off the road by whatever means neccessary and if that is random checks for DUI then I am in favour of those checks.

Offline motodude

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 01:42:25 AM »
In this age of universal cell phone use, check-points are really unnecessary, a waste of tax payer money and law enforcement resources.  If you see a drunk driver: 9-1-1.  It is really that simple.  After all, the supreme court has ruled the the govt. is not responsible for your safety, you are.
Maybe then you can tell how I can be responsible for my own safety when I cannot control the drunk drivers.  By people obeying the law and not drinking and driving can make my road use safer. If they will not obey the law then they should be taken off the road by whatever means neccessary and if that is random checks for DUI then I am in favour of those checks.

That was the SCOTUS that ruled the govt is not responsible for your safety, not me.
But...
There are gobs-o-things in life you can't control.  Deal with it.  The govt. is incapable of making the world safe or fair or whatever you think it should be.  Relying on the govt just leads to disappointment. 

Arresting drunks only gets them off the road temporarily anyway.  As anecdotal evidence, my uncle crashed his car about a block from the courthouse in the middle of the day on his way to court for his sixth DUI.  You can't get life for drunk driving and taking their license just means that they're driving w/o a license or insurance.  Saturation patrols, check-points and the like are really just PR stunts designed to make folks feel safe which is about all the govt. can do.

Tom
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Rick G

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 02:46:00 AM »
Considering that the US had double the number of road fatalities per head of population than Australia and close to 3 times the serious injuries tell me again how safe it is to drive in USA. I would say that with the attitude that seems to prevail the situation will not improve and will probably get worse in comparison to most other western countries.
I intend to leave it here as I see no point to continuing a pointless discussion.

Offline frankenduck

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 03:00:50 AM »
In the end it's all about politics and revenue, not safety.  Numerous studies have shown that texting while driving is just as dangerous as DUI.  Show me one country/state/municipality where the penalties for texting while driving are anywhere near the penalties for DUI. If you can't figure it out from there then I have one question for you: are you any less dead if you're taken out by a sober texter rather than a DUI?
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Offline motodude

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 09:51:19 AM »
Considering that the US had double the number of road fatalities per head of population than Australia and close to 3 times the serious injuries tell me again how safe it is to drive in USA. I would say that with the attitude that seems to prevail the situation will not improve and will probably get worse in comparison to most other western countries.
I intend to leave it here as I see no point to continuing a pointless discussion.

Where did I say it was safe to drive, anywhere? 

It is _relatively_ safe, most times you will make it home w/o injury.  But, there's no guarantee of that.  There never has been and there never will be and it has absolutely nothing to do with which state you live in or govt. regulations, actions, etc.

Life is uncertain, eat dessert first!   :drool:
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Offline DRxBMW

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 10:17:14 AM »

Where did I say it was safe to drive, anywhere? 

Life is uncertain, eat dessert first!   :drool:

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Offline motodude

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Re: safety checkpoints
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 11:44:03 AM »

Where did I say it was safe to drive, anywhere? 

Life is uncertain, eat dessert first!   :drool:

ride HARD __________ life's short




From my perspective, if driving/riding were safe, I probably would not be interested in it.  It would be very boring.

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