Author Topic: clutch adjustment confusion  (Read 3800 times)

Offline dmsantam

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clutch adjustment confusion
« on: October 06, 2023, 01:33:48 AM »
hello all, I am a little confused about clutch adjustment.

The chris harris video () has the following steps:
1. using the handlebar clutch lever adjustment, adjust until the cable measurement from nipple to housing is 75mm
2. check handlebar clutch lever freeplay, and you want to aim for 4mm (2mm for k75 i believe), and adjust this from the gearbox side - 13mm box wrench to loosen locknut, and then adjust to get appropriate freeplay at the handlebar lever.
3. job done

But the clymer manual and service manual method is different. This is the method i've always used:
1. using the handlebar clutch lever adjustment, adjust until the cable measurement from nipple to housing is 75mm
2. undo 13mm locknut at the gearbox side and tighten the adjustment by hand until a little resistance is felt. stop there, and tighten locknut
3. go back to the handlebar lever, and adjust at using the handlebar lever adjustment for the appropriate freeplay of 4mm at the handlebar lever (2mm for k75).

It seems to me that step 3 of the service manual method would result in the step 1 measurement now being different to 75mm.

Which is correct, or am I misunderstanding something? I've always used the service manual method and had no issues.

cheers
  • Sydney, Australia
  • k75s 1996

Offline Laitch

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2023, 03:14:13 AM »
The clutches of the K75 series, the K100 series and the K1100 series are all similar. The individual measurements given in manuals or videos are guidelines. The goal of a clutch adjustment is to have enough free play to allow the clutch assembly to provide smooth shifting without clutch slippage, and also to provide sufficient tension on the clutch piston/boot assembly to keep the boot from leaking transmission oil. All the procedures you have indicated are intended to do that. If the service manual method you use on your K75S is creating no issues, keep using it.   

You can attempt to prove your hypothesis that Procedure X creates Condition Y if exploring that rabbit hole would be fulfilling, but regardless of what you choose to do within the sphere of the hypothetical, it's unlikely you can beat the analyses at Project Farm:laughing4-giggles:
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 102,000 miles
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Offline daveson

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2023, 10:09:25 PM »
I think your understanding is correct. Here's one way to think about it. I think Chris Harris is doing it the correct way, and the way a mechanic would do it, and maintains 75mm (with the cable at 90 degrees to the release arm? Which is most effective)

The final 4mm adjustment at the handlebar is easier and quicker to do at the handlebar adjuster, and toolless to boot.

The Clymer and rider's manuals are written with the rider in mind, normally not a mechanic. It wants to be simple for the rider to do, if needed between services. If that changes the angle from 90 degrees to say 89 degrees, that's not a biggie.

By service manual, I'm guessing you mean rider's manual.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)
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Offline dmsantam

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2023, 10:19:08 PM »

By service manual, I'm guessing you mean rider's manual.

the official BMW service manual I have also used the same method as clymer and rider/user manual
  • Sydney, Australia
  • k75s 1996

Offline daveson

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2023, 11:14:10 PM »
Does your BMW manual look like mine, I'm not confident mine is the proper one, seems like a summary type thing. By the way, this one says 2mm free play for both the 75 and the 100, unlike the rider's manuals.

Attachment didn't work, I'll try again later.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline Laitch

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2023, 04:38:56 AM »
A basic clutch adjustment is one that is done when you're unsure how, or if, the clutch was adjusted before you got the Brick, or if you've installed a new clutch disc, disassembled clutch components, replaced the clutch cable or done some other damned-fool, obsessive thing that possibly could have affected clutch performance. If BMW has its way with you, the clutch hand lever adjusting screw is used for one purpose—to do its part of the basic adjustment. After the basic adjustment, as the clutch disc wears you'll be adjusting the free play gap using the clutch arm adjusting screw at the white arrow in the lowest photo below. That means if you don't have a motorcycle lift you'll need to squat, kneel or lie down, adjust the screw then get up and measure the gap until the gap is the correct width—unless you have trustworthy minions to do this for you—every time, time after time as the clutch disc wears and time flows on, through the miles, past changes in lovers, after pre-nuptials, after court arraignments, after layoffs, after tax deadlines, after grandchild arrivals, after pet burials and home mortgage payoffs until the friction disc wears out, the pressure plate erodes, the diaphragm spring collapses, the clutch cable breaks, the clutch rod disintegrates, the clutch rod bushing seizes, the output shaft o-ring rots, the rear main seal leaks, or until you need a mobility scooter.

Must you exert yourself, or your minions, like that? No! Regardless of how you choose to adjust that free play gap when the time comes, the result should be that the clutch friction disc doesn't slip under load, that it disengages completely when shifting so the transmission goes smoothly into and out of gear and the disc doesn't wear out prematurely, and that gear oil isn't pooling on the driveway, garage or public byways because it's leaking from the clutch boot that wasn't getting enough pressure delivered against its piston by the adjusting screw's tip after your clutch adjustment.

Pay attention and feel the effect of that free play in the clutch hand lever when you are shifting at speed. Feel it, man, feel it, but don't close your eyes while feeling it, at speed anyway; bliss might hit you, or you it, unexpectedly. You'll eventually feel the moment when it needs to be adjusted, unless—of course—you're just posing on your cafe racer project with an abandoned, decrepit prison yard and its collapsed water tower as a background for a photo to use in an ad to sell your Brick because it never shifted well or even ran well despite the seemingly infinite time you spent consulting and theorizing with Internet Bricksters from all points of the compass, and after sending sizable donations to the worldwide consortium of BMW service and parts (new or pre-worn) vendors concerned with your well-being.

The following is from the 1988 BMW K100/K75 2V shop manual here at MOTOBRICK.COM. Note the differences in free play gap between the models, but daveson's observation is on target. My rider's handbook says 5mm for my K75. I'm unconcerned one way or the other because I've got that lovin' feelin' and it's not gone, gone, gone—Wo-wo-o.


  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 102,000 miles
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Offline dmsantam

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2023, 05:29:24 AM »
A basic clutch adjustment is one that is done when you're unsure how, or if, the clutch was adjusted before you got the Brick, or if you've installed a new clutch disc, disassembled clutch components, replaced the clutch cable or done some other damned-fool, obsessive thing that possibly could have affected clutch performance. If BMW has its way with you, the clutch hand lever adjusting screw is used for one purpose—to do its part of the basic adjustment. After the basic adjustment, as the clutch disc wears you'll be adjusting the free play gap using the clutch arm adjusting screw at the white arrow in the lowest photo below. That means if you don't have a motorcycle lift you'll need to squat, kneel or lie down, adjust the screw then get up and measure the gap until the gap is the correct width—unless you have trustworthy minions to do this for you—every time, time after time as the clutch disc wears and time flows on, through the miles, past changes in lovers, after pre-nuptials, after court arraignments, after layoffs, after tax deadlines, after grandchild arrivals, after pet burials and home mortgage payoffs until the friction disc wears out, the pressure plate erodes, the diaphragm spring collapses, the clutch cable breaks, the clutch rod disintegrates, the clutch rod bushing seizes, the output shaft o-ring rots, the rear main seal leaks, or until you need a mobility scooter.

Must you exert yourself, or your minions, like that? No! Regardless of how you choose to adjust that free play gap when the time comes, the result should be that the clutch friction disc doesn't slip under load, that it disengages completely when shifting so the transmission goes smoothly into and out of gear and the disc doesn't wear out prematurely, and that gear oil isn't pooling on the driveway, garage or public byways because it's leaking from the clutch boot that wasn't getting enough pressure delivered against its piston by the adjusting screw's tip after your clutch adjustment.

Pay attention and feel the effect of that free play in the clutch hand lever when you are shifting at speed. Feel it, man, feel it, but don't close your eyes while feeling it, at speed anyway; bliss might hit you, or you it, unexpectedly. You'll eventually feel the moment when it needs to be adjusted, unless—of course—you're just posing on your cafe racer project with an abandoned, decrepit prison yard and its collapsed water tower as a background for a photo to use in an ad to sell your Brick because it never shifted well or even ran well despite the seemingly infinite time you spent consulting and theorizing with Internet Bricksters from all points of the compass, and after sending sizable donations to the worldwide consortium of BMW service and parts (new or pre-worn) vendors concerned with your well-being.

The following is from the 1988 BMW K100/K75 2V shop manual here at MOTOBRICK.COM. Note the differences in free play gap between the models, but daveson's observation is on target. My rider's handbook says 5mm for my K75. I'm unconcerned one way or the other because I've got that lovin' feelin' and it's not gone, gone, gone—Wo-wo-o.




 44271 haha that was a great read. well said 😂
  • Sydney, Australia
  • k75s 1996

Offline dmsantam

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2023, 05:30:23 AM »
Does your BMW manual look like mine, I'm not confident mine is the proper one, seems like a summary type thing. By the way, this one says 2mm free play for both the 75 and the 100, unlike the rider's manuals.

Attachment didn't work, I'll try again later.

Hey mate, mine is from motobrick.com as per laitches post below. cheers
  • Sydney, Australia
  • k75s 1996

Offline daveson

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2023, 05:46:42 AM »
Hey Laitch, which page is that?

In my book, and Motobrick, on page 21-10 it says 2mm for both. For some reason I can't load photo's at the moment. Not a biggie, but now I'm confused.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline Laitch

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2023, 06:16:51 AM »
Hey Laitch, which page is that?
In my book, and Motobrick, on page 21-10 it says 2mm for both. For some reason I can't load photo's at the moment. Not a biggie, but now I'm confused.
You don't need to load photos even if you could, daveson. Your book is the same as my book. Look in your manual p. 00-35.

One of BMW's charming attributes is that they don't make all the decisions for us; they give us a choice—all in the same manual.  :laughing4-giggles: It's somewhat unsettling for the uninitiated, but I'm all for it. Pick the instruction that's most convenient or attractive. It's also useful if you make mechanical decisions numerologically.

2mm works if it's actually free play, but neither BMW or Harris really describe how free play feels, although Harris illustrates it in passing. I describe free play as being able to move the lever 2mm without much effort using my index finger but struggling to move past 2mm without using more effort. It is a distinct difference.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 102,000 miles
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Offline daveson

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2023, 06:31:13 AM »
Goodo, thanks, I see it now. I spose maybe it's just a typo.
  • Victoria, Australia
  • Current; '85 K100RT~100,000km; four other bricks. Past; Vulcan 1500, V Star 650, KLX 250(dirt bike) TT250(dirt bike)

Offline caveman

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2023, 06:47:00 AM »
numerological
adjective
US  /ˌnuː.mɚ.əˈlɑː.dʒɪ.kəl/ UK  /ˌnjuː.mər.əˈlɒdʒ.ɪ.kəl/

relating to numerology (= the study of numbers in the belief that they have a special importance in people's lives):

Had to look that one up, I'm never getting in a word fight with Laitch. It would be like taking a spoon to a gun fight.
  • Kennerdell, PA.
  • 87 K100RT, 88 K100LT

Offline Laitch

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2023, 07:20:32 AM »
Goodo, thanks, I see it now. I spose maybe it's just a typo.
That raises the question, "Which is the typo—the upper 2mm or the lower 2mm on p. 21-10; the 4mm on p. 00-35 or the 5mm in my rider's handbook? There are a few resolutions for this confusion in the absence of a skilled personal mentor:
Pick one set of instructions and go with it.
Consult Haynes and Chilton also and go with the majority.
Conduct an Internet poll on websites but require resumes from the respondents prior to their balloting.  :laughing4-giggles:
Pick people who are charismatic, use cookies as worship offerings to them and hang onto their every declaration.
Try to decide from a preponderance of opinions in discussion.
Learn the mechanical attributes of the systems with which you are working so you can make informed decisions.

This contradictory information is surprisingly common in technical writing that is driven by publication deadlines in industries that are continually responding to performance data. Editors and proofreaders need to be at the top of their games to catch such contradictions and to query them with authors. Sometimes the authors don't respond because they don't know what the hell is going on either so it all goes to press.

In the meantime, here on Earth we either suffer, or take on adventure into the almost-known. Who needs to go to Everest? It's a mess up there anyway.

In the case of free play here, the variations are small and the effect of too much or too little will usually be felt sooner than later. If you're the obsessive type, wondering if torque values are correct could lay you low; however, there are universal torque tables available so relief is not too strenuous to obtain.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 102,000 miles
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Offline dmsantam

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Re: clutch adjustment confusion
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2023, 06:24:09 PM »
I like the clutch feel with 4-5mm freeplay on  my K75S so I will stick with that. I measure freeplay the same way Laitch mentions - easy to move the lever with an index finger. With 4-5mm, the clutch still fully disengages fine when the lever is pulled in all the way. 2mm has the engagement point too far out when letting the lever out, for my tastes.

I use the clymer method and shall stick with it:
1. adjust at handlebar lever to get the cable to be 75mm
2. adjust at gearbox to make the adjustment bolt just touch
3. adjust at lever to get 4-5mm freeplay

Thanks for the assistance all
  • Sydney, Australia
  • k75s 1996

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