Author Topic: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?  (Read 8628 times)

Offline wardie

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changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« on: September 20, 2017, 11:15:31 PM »

Just replaced my rear master cylinder on my 95' K 1100 RS. Tail light works but brake light doesn't? Doesn't matter if you use brake pedal or brake lever no brake light?


I have skene flashing led tied into the tail/brake light and everything worked fine until I swapped the Master Cylinder.


Any ideas?

Offline Inge K.

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2017, 01:31:17 AM »
Most possibly the wires to the switch have been trapped between the footrest bridge and the gearbox,
then the wires have shorted to ground and blown the fuse.
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Offline Martin

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2017, 02:50:07 AM »
+1 you wont be the first or the last to pinch the wires.
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Offline wardie

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 10:38:24 PM »

It isn't any pinched wires. I was three hours behind on leaving Thursday for the Aim Expo in Columbus (3 hour drive) troubleshooting this.. so here's what I finally did to get a brake light.


I disconnected the rear brake switch at it's connector. I ran a wire from the brake light   to one side of the switch. I ran a length of wire from the other side and  feed 12 v to the other side of the switch. Tap the peddle the brake light works except now the red triangle is on.


Let me ask this. I did not check the front brake lever switch. If that was faulty would that stop both switches from working?
Looks like they are linked in the wiring diagram. Man it is a pisser.

Offline Laitch

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2017, 12:31:15 AM »
I disconnected the rear brake switch at it's connector. I ran a wire from the brake light   to one side of the switch. I ran a length of wire from the other side and  feed 12 v to the other side of the switch. Tap the peddle the brake light works except now the red triangle is on.
Have you tried pulling fuse #1, cleaning its fuse panel terminals then inserting a replacement?
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Offline Inge K.

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 05:48:25 AM »
I ran a wire from the brake light   to one side of the switch......Tap the peddle the brake light works except now the red triangle is on.

The power to the brake lamp must pass through the BMU to switch off the warning lamp.
-
-
When the BMU reads signal from both brake lamp switches and both the tail light bulb and the brake light bulb and their connections is OK....then the warning lamp goes off.
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Offline wardie

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 05:59:48 AM »

Have you tried pulling fuse #1, cleaning its fuse panel terminals then inserting a replacement?


yes that was the first thing checked

Offline wardie

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 06:00:55 AM »

The power to the brake lamp must pass through the BMU to switch off the warning lamp.
-
-
When the BMU reads signal from both brake lamp switches and both the tail light bulb and the brake light bulb and their connections is OK....then the warning lamp goes off.


are U saying if my front brake lever switch is defective I won't have a brake light even if my rear brake peddle switch is operational?

Offline rbm

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2017, 07:29:56 AM »
When power is first applied to the BMU, it assumes all switches are non-functioning until proven functional. So it lights the BMU indicator (big red triangle).  If you activate each switch in turn, front then back, the BMU will test that the brake light illuminates with each activation.  If it detects both switches illuminated the brake light at least once, the red triangle indicator extinguishes.  Thus the BMU is testing three things on the brake circuit:
1. the brake light itself is functional
2. the front brake switch is operational
3. the rear brake switch is operational

Once this one-time first power on test is successful, either brake switch will operate the brake light and the BMU indicator will never light up. From then on until power is lost, the only condition that will cause the BMU indicator to light up will be if the brake light bulb burns out.

Since you bypassed the BMU in your effort to test the rear brake switch, you bypassed this critical power-on test for the rear switch and thus the BMU indicator never went out.

Your problem with the rear brake switch is concentrated around the wiring to the BMU since neither switch passes the power on self test. The assumption is that nothing in the wiring has changed since the rear master was replaced so there's a disconnection somewhere.

Fuse #1 is the only common element between the front and rear brake switches. Have you checked for power on the Green/Black wire on both switches when you first power on the bike?

Have you checked for power at the Grey/Yellow on the rear taillight connector when you activate either brake switch with the power on? Disconnect the brake/tail light from the harness to run this test.

P.S. In this entire thread, I'm assuming that the Skene LED indicator is wired in PARALLEL with the brake/tail light.  Is that a correct assumption?
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline wardie

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2017, 04:24:22 PM »


Your problem with the rear brake switch is concentrated around the wiring to the BMU since neither switch passes the power on self test. The assumption is that nothing in the wiring has changed since the rear master was replaced so there's a disconnection somewhere. I think that is correct

Fuse #1 is the only common element between the front and rear brake switches. Have you checked for power on the Green/Black wire on both switches when you first power on the bike?  Yes and I have no power to either switch

Have you checked for power at the Grey/Yellow on the rear taillight connector when you activate either brake switch with the power on? Disconnect the brake/tail light from the harness to run this test.  Yes I checked their is no power to the stop light switch

P.S. In this entire thread, I'm assuming that the Skene LED indicator is wired in PARALLEL with the brake/tail light.  Is that a correct assumption?


Yes it is parallel not series or else that could cause my problem

Offline rbm

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 05:52:58 PM »
Fuse #1 is the only common element between the front and rear brake switches. Have you checked for power on the Green/Black wire on both switches when you first power on the bike?  Yes and I have no power to either switch
^^^ Big problem.  Solve this first.  I am in agreement with what Laitch said earlier. I believe that power is not being delivered through Fuse #1.  Either the fuse itself is open circuit (even though it may visually look intact) or the receptical into which the fuse is plugged is not making contact to the fuse terminals.  Check and repair.

Have you checked for power at the Grey/Yellow on the rear taillight connector when you activate either brake switch with the power on? Disconnect the brake/tail light from the harness to run this test.  Yes I checked their is no power to the stop light switch
^^^ This is a red herring.  Fix the first problem first.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline Inge K.

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 06:18:28 PM »
If fuse #1 is the problem a lot of the warning lamps in the instrument would stay dark when the ignition
is switched on.
If the sidestand is down you won't have any power to fuse #1 (and a lot of other this and that).
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Offline rbm

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2017, 06:20:53 PM »
Good point Inge.  Sidestand switch can go intermittent and cause problems too.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline wardie

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2017, 10:35:57 PM »

after pulling the tank checking all switches , fuses, grounds you name it I decide to disconnect my skene led taillight/brake lights from the brake light and guess what my brake light worked. Something has gone wrong in the skene computer and I'll have to send it back. I figured go back to the beginning and that's what led me to unhook the unit.


The Skene brake aux. brake lights worked perfect then it didn't without any warning.


I want to thank all who offered suggestions on cause and fixes. Thanks Wardie

Offline rbm

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2017, 07:14:21 AM »
That's the fun part about electronics.  They don't wear out and fail over time like mechanics; they fail abruptly and for no apparent reason, usually without warning, after a long trouble-free service life.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline Laitch

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2017, 08:51:02 AM »
In this entire thread, I'm assuming that the Skene LED indicator is wired in PARALLEL with the brake/tail light.  Is that a correct assumption?
Yes it is parallel not series or else that could cause my problem
. . . I decide to disconnect my skene led taillight/brake lights from the brake light and guess what my brake light worked. Something has gone wrong in the skene computer and I'll have to send it back.
If the Skene was wired parallel as Wardie indicates, how could its failure affect affect the stock tail and brake lights, as Wardie now indicates?
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Offline rbm

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2017, 08:54:42 AM »

If the Skene was wired parallel as Wardie indicates, how would its failure affect affect the stock tail and brake lights, as Wardie now indicates?
If it fails short circuit (instead of open circuit), it could exhibit symptoms as Wardie observed, Laitch.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline wardie

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Re: changed rear master cylinder no brake lights now?
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2017, 01:11:56 PM »

"If the Skene was wired parallel as Wardie indicates, how could its failure affect affect the stock tail and brake lights, as Wardie now indicates? "


That's what I'm going to ask Skene on Monday Laitch.

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