Author Topic: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!  (Read 6213 times)

Offline duddini

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My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« on: September 09, 2017, 11:22:23 AM »
Hi all, I really hope all the experience on this forum can help me. My brick will not turn over. This post may be a bit long, I'll detail exactly what my bike is doing/not doing, and what I have done so far to try to fix it.

  When I turn the key two clicks to the right (all the way clockwise) on my 1985 K100RS (production month 07/1984), with 94,952 on the odometer and 12.6 volt battery and push the start button (with kill switch at 12 o'clock).......nothing. What does happen is:

-The tachometer goes to ~5000 RPM and stays for 3-4 seconds, then drops down.
-The green neutral light and the one above it (red triangle), and the oil light, come on
-Initially no headlight, but about the time the tach is dropping, the headlight comes on VERY weakly.
-No horn or turn signals.
-When I flip the kill switch to 10 or 2 o'clock it shuts down all the lights.

I have searched through all the sections here and printed out a fair amount of stuff. So far, I have tried:
-Rolling backward in gear and popping the clutch 3-4 times.
-Removing the starter, opening it to clean it out (P.O. had tried this so it was clean). I put 12 volts to it while I had it off the bike and it spun freely. I cleaned the mounting feet and frame (even though I understand it doesn't ground through the feet) as well as the cable connection.
-Removed the tank, separated every connector I could get to, sprayed with de-ox and mated/unmated several times, then sprayed with contact cleaner.
-Cleaned up both grounds that I know of; the wire from the battery and the one under the tank (labeled #9 in one diagram I found).
-Cleaned with de-ox, etc. the large connector in the compartment on top of the battery.
-Checked the voltage on the clutch handle circuit (a thread I found), and it was ~5 volts whether the handle was pulled in or not' I'm thinking maybe a PO had wired around this switch.
-Removed the ignition switch, took it apart to clean it, and put it back. The contacts were actually pretty clean.

  There was a one-time event that was strange. When I first had the tank off and had cleaned and sprayed the 4-pin connector under the tank, I tried to start it. There was a very high-pitched whine that came from the relay box, when I touched the LSR I could feel it vibrating. I turned off the key and could never get this to repeat.

  The PO used this bike as a daily driver (we work together, it's how I came to admire the bike). He said one day it just quit turning over. He knew a little about things, so he removed the starter, opened it and cleaned it, and put it back. No go. The only other thing he said he did was replace the hand controls with ones he bought on e-bay.

I apologize for the length of this post, but I'm hoping to answer most of the obvious questions and to show I've tried to do my homework here by searching.

Please help guys !!!  Thanks

Bob
  • Texas
  • 1985 BMW K100RS, 1984 Honda 650 Nighthawk

Offline johnny

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Offline duddini

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2017, 03:11:32 PM »
and pin 86 would be which one ??  The chart has pin numbers for some relays but not the starter relay, it only labels colors.

Bob
  • Texas
  • 1985 BMW K100RS, 1984 Honda 650 Nighthawk

Offline Laitch

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2017, 04:49:37 PM »
and pin 86 would be which one ??  The chart has pin numbers for some relays but not the starter relay, it only labels colors.
The main interactive diagram has pin numbers for the starter. Put on your glasses, enlarge the diagram.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline Laitch

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2017, 04:58:01 PM »
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline rbm

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2017, 05:20:22 PM »
Hi,


There is a colour wiring diagram on my Google drive:  https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3UPbNZRyr1ramNaQ19DM3Z6TTQ


You should be getting +10V - +12V at the Green/Black wire at the righthand switch cluster when EITHER the transmission is in Neutral (which you confirmed is the case) OR the clutch handle is pulled in.  You say you measure +5V irrespective of this so there is something definitely wrong there.  That condition has to be solved first.


You've cleaned the ignition switch and starter which should eliminate weird problems like the tach and headlight.


The power that is used to pick the starter relay when you press the starter button comes from Fuse #1.  Check that fuse and its supply circuit.  Have you pulled Fuse #1 and checked it?  Have you a new replacement fuse you can use?  The power to Fuse #1 comes from the Green/Yellow at the righthand switch cluster.  Do you measure +12V at this point when (1) the ignition switch is in "ON" position and (2) the Kill switch is in its normal "ENABLE" position?  If yes, then the problem lies with Fuse #1 or the downstream wiring.  If no, the problem lies further upstream with the kill switch or the ignition switch.


Do you measure +12V at the Green wire off the ignition switch when the switch is in "ON" position?  If yes, there is a wiring or connection problem with the righthand switch cluster or the ignition switch.  If no, the problem lies even further upstream.  Do you measure +12V on the Red wire irrespective of the position of the ignition switch?


Try these suggestions first and report back.

  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline duddini

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2017, 06:25:40 PM »
Dumb question, which is Fuse #1 ??  Are the positions labeled from the top down or bottom up ??  I've looked (apparently not well enough) and can't find how the fuse positions are numbered.

 Thanks for the info, I'll get out my multimeter and start checking. The voltage on the green/black wire was NOT 10-12 volts, which I thought was odd at the time, now I know for certain. The weird behavior of the tach made me think it was the ignition switch, but no go. The kill switch is in the "enable" position (straight up) for everything I've mentioned.

Thanks again, this gives me several things to check and I'll get back with the results.


* 85k100.jpg (121.79 kB . 640x406 - viewed 453 times)

Bob
  • Texas
  • 1985 BMW K100RS, 1984 Honda 650 Nighthawk

Offline Laitch

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2017, 08:05:59 PM »
Dumb question, which is Fuse #1 ??
Before you're driven into a paroxysm of confusion, duddini, the arrows indicate pinch points for cover removal.

  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline duddini

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2017, 08:30:08 PM »
Good thing I have thick skin  :bmwsmile

Thanks for the info guys, no more questions now until I have some measurements.

I honestly appreciate all the help.
  • Texas
  • 1985 BMW K100RS, 1984 Honda 650 Nighthawk

Offline wally.fisher

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 03:50:39 AM »
I'd go back to the starter.


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Offline Andy FitzGibbon

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2017, 08:39:38 AM »
I'd look at the clutch switch and gear indicator circuits first, since there seems to be a known problem there (5 volts isn't correct) and they are what supply power to the start button.

I had starting problems on my 85 100RS, which turned out to be a bad connecton in the gauge cluster plug (feeding the GPI and neutral light) and a corroded clutch switch connection under the tank. Both would allow some voltage through, but not the full 12 volts, which caused intermittent no-start or slow-crank problems.


Andy
  • Montrose, WV
  • 1985 K100RS, 1972 R75/5, 2012 Suzuki DR650

Offline rbm

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2017, 10:41:56 AM »
I had starting problems on my 85 100RS, which turned out to be a bad connecton ... Both would allow some voltage through, .... 
Corrosion would be a root cause for intermittent starting problems.  I'll correct you on terminology.  Voltage doesn't flow, so it can't be "allowed through", current is the thing that flows and that is allowed through.  What happened in your case is the corrosion at the contact offered resistance to the flow of current, causing a voltage drop across the bad connection.  The resulting voltage across the starter relay coil was insufficient to pick it.
  • Regards, Robert
Toronto, Ontario

1987 K75 - Build Blog @http://k75retro.blogspot.ca/

Offline Andy FitzGibbon

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2017, 10:56:40 AM »
Corrosion would be a root cause for intermittent starting problems.  I'll correct you on terminology.  Voltage doesn't flow, so it can't be "allowed through", current is the thing that flows and that is allowed through.  What happened in your case is the corrosion at the contact offered resistance to the flow of current, causing a voltage drop across the bad connection.  The resulting voltage across the starter relay coil was insufficient to pick it.


Robert, thank you. That's what I meant, but I was unable to articulate it.


Andy
  • Montrose, WV
  • 1985 K100RS, 1972 R75/5, 2012 Suzuki DR650

Offline duddini

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Re: My 1985 K100RS needs an Exorcism !!
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2017, 10:58:49 AM »
I think I found the problem....it's the LSR.

I rechecked the clutch switch, with the key on it was reading 5 volts at the connector with the 2 yellow wires when the clutch lever was pulled in. Then I checked continuity, and there was an open circuit with the lever untouched, and .6 ohms (continuity) when it was pulled. So then I checked the voltage at the right hand switch and it was only 5 volts, so I took it apart to check (thanks rbm). The switch was corroded and not making good contact. Cleaned it up, turned on the key, all the instrument lights were bright, the headlight came on, and I got 11+ volts at the green, green/yellow, and green/black wire. Also had 11+ at fuse #1.  BUT, and soon as I put any load on the circuit (pushed the start button, or even beeped the horn) the lights dimmed, the voltage at all the right hand switch wires, as well as the red wire at the ignition switch, went to 4.4 volts and the LSR made a loud "screeching" noise and I can feel it vibrate.
  Thanks again guys (rbm), by cleaning up the contacts on the cut-out switch it showed what the problem is (I think anyway).  I have a new LSR on order.

You guys are great, thanks again, I'll post once I plug in the new LSR,
Bob
  • Texas
  • 1985 BMW K100RS, 1984 Honda 650 Nighthawk

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