Author Topic: K75 rear rotor thickness  (Read 27258 times)

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2016, 02:18:47 PM »
. . . inspector with no interest in senseless ball-busting.
That's not always the case. Vehicle inspectors take on considerable liability if they're working in the private sector like those in Vermont. Without clear evidence to the contrary—which you wisely provided—they must adhere to the standards they're given.

One inspector here was prosecuted for performing a substandard inspection that passed defective brakes later found to contribute to a fatal accident. His negligence was gross but any negligence—no matter how benign it may seem—can bring similar consequences. That's why some inspectors are strict about the process.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2016, 05:45:52 PM »
By senseless ball-busting I mean if I had provided solid information and documentation from two sources, i.e. direct from the OEM Service Manual and the Clymer, but the inspector had still persisted in requiring .18 thickness because that value appeared stamped in the metal, despite the fact that he had no proof that the value stamped into that metal actually did refer to the minimum thickness of the brake disk and not the actual thickness of the inspector's own tiny wee-wee.

Noone begrudges people doing their job -- people just generally don't like senseless ball-busters, and God knows there is no lack of those running around in positions of 'authority'. I consider myself lucky to have gotten a reasonable guy.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2016, 05:59:28 PM »
He was probably influenced by your sensitive and pleasant personality, Motorhobo.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2016, 06:20:06 AM »
 :hehehe

Or my shameless pandering.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2016, 10:36:19 AM »
Stand by. I've got a query in at MAX BMW, received an acknowledgement and am waiting for a second response. This lack of clarity is unfair to owners getting inspections and to the people administering them.
I just received a response from Jeremy at MAX BMW. His response just repeats what we already understand—that inspections vary from state to state and that inspectors can chose to impose the minimum clearance stamped on the carrier rather than published specs.

I asked him to explain why some carriers have this stamp but specs printed at seemingly every source for K75 bikes are at variance with what is stamped on the carrier, and I asked for documentation that can be presented at an inspection declaring the .18" spec an invalid one in these cases.

I believe he'll respond.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2016, 10:48:29 AM »
Just wondering -- did you ask him what Max BMW would do if a customer came in with a rear disk under .18? Would they recommend that the disk be replaced? In other words, what specification does Max BMW observe? I mean, when customers come in, the dealer can't hem and haw -- they have to fill out a service order. Seems no one wants to say any words that reflect an actual position on it.

Except Inge who did one better than words by showing me the manual.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2016, 10:53:50 AM »
Just wondering -- did you ask him what Max BMW would do if a customer came in with a rear disk under .18?
Jeremy tried to send me a BMW spec sheet but attached only a tag not the document in his email to me. I asked him to resend. I'll post the response with the document as a pdf that can be downloaded and presented to inspectors. This would be as an aid to members who aren't as charming as you, Motorhobo.
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Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2016, 11:16:54 AM »
Except Inge who did one better than words by showing me the manual.

I would say that what's stamped on the disc hub overrules the spec in the manual, as this change have
happened many years after the manual have been printed.

But it strange that it is so difficult to find any info about this.
Have searching a bit about this, and see that the question also have been raised in European forums....
but no one have an answer to this secret.
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Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2016, 11:24:35 AM »
But it strange that it is so difficult to find any info about this.
Have searching a bit about this, and see that the question also have been raised in European forums....
but no one have an answer to this secret.
I wonder how many people have paid unnecessarily for a new rotor if there is no published documentation to require it. It's possible it could be a production/assembly error for which nobody in the corporation has taken responsibility.

Jeremy's response should be incoming today.
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Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2016, 05:32:01 PM »
Searching a bit around it seems like the thicker brake (min. 0.18") discs is used on all ABS models.

Non ABS did follow later......could be that this was around the same time that the OEM brake pads
was changed from organic to sintered.

Only a dive into the deepest and darkest archive will reveale the secret.
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Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2016, 06:03:27 PM »
Only a dive into the deepest and darkest archive will reveale the secret.
This is what I received from MAX BMW.  It probably looks familiar to you and Motorhobo, Inge. :giggles  It can be inferred then that this is the specification they are following for all K75 models regardless. MAX hasn't explained anything about the .18"Minimum stamp so, like Motorhobo the trailblazer, this is probably what others should present at inspection if there's an issue.

I'm attracted to the idea of changing the .18 to .13 then dabbing on a matching metallic color to finish the project.   cool shades
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Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2016, 06:12:56 PM »
Looks like the manual is just as old as that one I did copy from.....and before the ABS was introduced.
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Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2016, 06:17:49 PM »
Looks like the manual is just as old as that one I did copy from.....and before the ABS was introduced.
Looks like the spec hasn't quite made it across the ocean yet—to that dealer, anyway— and that's OK. :2thumbup:
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #38 on: September 16, 2016, 07:00:07 PM »
Using the Clymer and the OEM manual, my disk passed inspection at about .157. Again, my last disk was at .103 without failure, having been used heavily to help stop a sidecar with a 75 lb. dog. So AFIAC, the .14 minimum spec can be adhered to and the .18 value ignored without repercussions of a technical nature. It isn't an ABS related stamp because that same stamp is on the disk that shipped with my 94 non-ABS K75.

As to the riddle of the.18 stamp, since it's in American standard units I think it's reasonable to say that it was introduced early on in the production process to address some US-specific concerns, and then nobody bothered to remove it and in the meantime it's actual purpose has been forgotten. Maybe it's not a minimum use spec at all, maybe it's a spec for the minimum out-of-the-box thickness to distinguish it from an earlier version that was NOT .18 out of the box, like maybe perhaps the one that had the cracking problem or maybe even a short-term interim solution that was used here in the US before the Vaterland got its shit together enough to design and produce the next generation.

Anyone having to have their bike inspected should take these docs to the inspector before paying for the inspection to avoid unpleasant surprises. Inquire specifically which value the inspector considers applicable. Even if your disk is below .157, the inspector might say the .14 minimum throw-away value applies. That's what my inspector said -- as long as it's .14, it's a pass. But YMMV depending on your inspector -- I guess one could just as easily argue that the service range of .157-.173 applies and below .157 isn't acceptable for inspection purposes.

1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Inge K.

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #39 on: September 16, 2016, 08:03:12 PM »
It isn't an ABS related stamp because that same stamp is on the disk that shipped with my 94 non-ABS K75.

Non ABS did follow later......could be that this was around the same time that the OEM brake pads
was changed from organic to sintered.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #40 on: September 18, 2016, 12:47:39 AM »
I get that, Inge, but it since only the US value is stamped, it seems more likely that the folks in Munich decided a good way to make money would be to put a bogus US value on the disk so that Americans could be compelled to replace more $400 disks. Kind of like how the folks in Wolfsburg decided they could sell more cars to Americans by by installing software that would output bogus emissons data.

Just sayin'.

Anyway, here's the Maryland inspection report with all the detail. I sure don't remember seeing anything like this last time I had a bike inspected here. Looks like the same form used for a cage. This might be the shape of things to come nationally.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Jethroww

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #41 on: September 18, 2016, 03:58:51 PM »
Hi, I have a 1988 K75S. I will attach pics of the disc.

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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #42 on: September 18, 2016, 08:09:15 PM »
The minimum gets thinner...the plot thickens...and all of a sudden the decimal delimiter is a comma (the Euro way) instead of a period (the US way) like it is on my disks.

Lends credence to Inge's theory about the later K75s...but I'm still riding it down to .14 regardless of what the disk says.

Thanks for posting the pics...though I'm confusder now than before...
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2016, 10:00:11 PM »
The minimum gets thinner...the plot thickens...and all of a sudden the decimal delimiter is a comma (the Euro way) instead of a period (the US
Why are Europeans using commas and inches? I think the Tri-Lateral Commission is somehow involved in this.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #44 on: September 19, 2016, 05:17:55 AM »
Why are Europeans using commas and inches? I think the Tri-Lateral Commission is somehow involved in this.

To make money and confuse Yanks, just like VW...except there was no such thing as software way back then so they had to do with hardware.
1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #45 on: September 19, 2016, 09:43:09 AM »
To make money and confuse Yanks,
VW wasn't confusing Yanks. It was completely deceiving Yanks. It was also deceiving Europeans and South Koreans who also were enforcing emissions standards, and is the target of lawsuits in Germany and SK. Over here, we were last in line. Let's give credit were credit is due. :clap:
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #46 on: September 19, 2016, 12:59:42 PM »
You're right -- credit where due. VW got caught while BWM Motorrad USA is still selling disks with .18 cast in the metal and no one knows for sure why and they'll never get caught. It's the perfect scam -- everyone knows affluent white males can't be victims.

Problem is -- affluent white males aren't riding these bikes anymore, only us poor folk who do their own work. I say -- class action! Sue the bastards! Justice must prevail! Long live the Proletariat!

On the other hand, I passed inspection so f**k it.



1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: K75 rear rotor thickness
« Reply #47 on: September 19, 2016, 01:17:29 PM »
On the other hand, I passed inspection so f**k it.
An adept imitation of a populist firebrand, Motorhobo. It might be time to quit profiling and take your act on the road—now that you can ride on it legally.
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