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Author Topic: Spline Lube  (Read 10796 times)

Offline imoir

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Spline Lube
« on: July 07, 2016, 08:33:05 AM »
The Honda Moly Paste (M77 now I think) is apparently non-existent around here.  The local dealers haven't even heard of it.

The local BMW dealer is using this stuff (below).

Anyone on here using this lube? 


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Offline rbm

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2016, 08:48:14 AM »
Its MSDS does not list molybdenum sulphide as an ingredient.  I don't think it would be a good substitute for Honda M77.

Why not pick up a large tub of Guard Dog gd-525 Moly?
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Offline imoir

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2016, 10:20:31 AM »
 :mbird  Wow.  Never noticed that.  I wonder how they get off calling it "Moly" grease.
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Offline Martin

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2016, 03:17:01 PM »
Honda Moly 60 now called Honda M77 Assembly Paste available from Honda car dealers.
Regards Martin.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2016, 04:25:18 PM »
According to the parts guy at Bob's BMW - who I trust, whatever you might thing of Bob's BMW sales, their shop has used DOW CORNING BR2 PLUS HP GREASE 14.1 OZ Grease Molybdenum Disulfide Grease instead of Staburags for years on splines, input/output shafts and anything that requires molybdenum sulphide:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301814032369?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

Big tube -- looks like a good value -- Beemerboneyard.com still has Guard Dog in stock but probably not for long, plus for the smaller amount with shipping you're in for $25. Anyone have experience with this Dow Corning stuff?

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Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline imoir

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2016, 04:38:20 PM »
I'm starting to wonder about these MSD Sheets from various manufacturers.  rbm pointed out (quite correctly) that the MSDS for the Sta Lube Moly-Graph did not list Molybdenum Sulphide (or Disulphide).  Well, neither does the MSDS for the MolyKote BR2, and the description of that product is literally "Molybdenum Disulphide Grease".

I found the M77 at the local Honda dealer so I'm going with that.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2016, 05:11:33 PM »
Who can read these tech sheets? I think there's a difference between a safety sheet and a product tech sheet. If you look here:

https://www.dowcorning.com/content/publishedlit/80-3256.pdf

and search the PDF for 'BR-2' you'll see a section that states this:

"Black, lithium soap thickened, premium mineral oil grease fortified with MoS2 and other solid lubricants. "

MoS2 being Molybdenum Disulphide -- if you search for mos2 you'll see there are multiple products in that data sheet that have it.

I used Honda Moly 60 once, but it wasn't sticky enough for me to be confident that much of it would adhere to the spline surface during rotation. I'd still be interested to know if anyone has experience with these Dow Corning moly products.


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1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Martin

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2016, 05:55:04 PM »
I had a Mercury mechanic try to talk me into using Mercury spline grease. Said it stood up to harsher conditions than you would ever encounter on a motorcycle. I nearly bought a tube just to have a look at it, but decided to go with what I knew,  the Mighty Gryphon might have encountered it. Regards Martin.
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Offline The Dude

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2016, 06:24:16 PM »
I used to use a Production Press tool white grease (possibly Castrol)that contained a large proportion of molybdenum disulphide content for tooling that was inaccessible or critical to production,donated by the teaspoon from work.
 Now for my next lube session I will buy a nz$70 tube 60% moly off our local BMW guys that specially import it ('cause Castrol doesn't).
Most greases will contain around 3% moly.Not Nearly enough for our application where high local temps and pressures and,effectively,neglect are experienced.
Guard dog have 30% moly.
The moly sticks to the metal long after the carrier has dried out so "flick off" might not be too concerning?
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Offline The Mighty Gryphon

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2016, 07:17:26 PM »
No experience with Mercury I/O drive lube, we are a sail marina. 

If you can't get a high molybdenum content grease, what's to stop you from adding a bunch of molybdenum disulfide powder to an otherwise good grease?  The powder is readily available on eBay for a reasonable price, and the extra can be added to the transmission and final drive to reduce friction there.  Don't put it in the engine though because the Moly powder is so slippery that your sprag clutch won't work.
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Offline TimTyler

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2016, 12:08:58 PM »
I contacted GuardDog Moly folks yesterday and got this response from their president:

Quote
The products are different.  GD-525 is a grease with synthetic fluids and thickener designed for severe applications*, such as spline shafts of motorcycles.  *heat, shock loading and high speed rotational movement.  The content of moly in 525 is 30% (for high resistance to wear).  Most likely BR-2 Plus has no more than 3%; 5% max. BR-2 is a multipurpose grease with mineral oil (limitations to high heat) and a thickener also with a limitation to high temperature.

BR-2 is no doubt an excellent multipurpose grease, but we have not had comparative tests on it like we have had on other competitive products typically used on spline shafts of motorcycles, as shown on the data sheet for 525.    BR-2 Plus does state it is for splines, but whether suitable for splines of motorcycles, I would not guess.

I have heard of other brands of multipurpose greases being used on splines of motorcycles -- with poor results.

Quote from: Motorhobo on July 07, 2016, 04:25:18 PM
According to the parts guy at Bob's BMW - who I trust, whatever you might thing of Bob's BMW sales, their shop has used DOW CORNING BR2 PLUS HP GREASE 14.1 OZ Grease Molybdenum Disulfide Grease instead of Staburags for years on splines, input/output shafts and anything that requires molybdenum sulphide:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/301814032369?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true

Big tube -- looks like a good value -- Beemerboneyard.com still has Guard Dog in stock but probably not for long, plus for the smaller amount with shipping you're in for $25. Anyone have experience with this Dow Corning stuff?
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2016, 12:21:46 PM »
Well, if it were up to me GD would continue to exist but that doesn't seem to be an option so an alternative would be good to have. He said the MoS2 content of the Dow stuff is 'most likely' 3% meaning he doesn't know for sure. I didn't see an exact content value on the product spec I found. I guess noone knows that for sure except the folks at Dow Corning and I see no reason to doubt the integrity of big corporations like Dow and Volkswagen.

Tim, did you happen to ask him if he could recommend a product now that his own product won't be available and he's doesn't have to worry about the competition?
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1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
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Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline TimTyler

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2016, 12:25:22 PM »
What makes you think GD525 won't be available anymore?

Looks like it's still on their site: http://guarddogmoly.com/product/gd-525-moly-grease-synthetic-2/

I bought the $30 jar earlier this year and I bet it lasts me ten years.
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Offline Laitch

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2016, 12:38:49 PM »
Quote from: TimTyler on July 08, 2016, 12:25:22 PM
What makes you think GD525 won't be available anymore?
I think this notice on their website has led to expectations that the supply will diminish, Tim.
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Offline Motorhobo

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2016, 12:51:32 PM »
I got the smaller amount and have used it for multiple spline lubes and it's still half full.
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1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline TimTyler

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2016, 01:20:17 PM »
Quote from: Laitch on July 08, 2016, 12:38:49 PM
I think this notice on their website has led to expectations that the supply will diminish, Tim.

Well, that explains it.  :yes

Stock up now!
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Offline Laitch

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Re: Spline Lube
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2016, 09:05:19 AM »
Quote from: imoir on July 07, 2016, 08:33:05 AM
The Honda Moly Paste (M77 now I think) is apparently non-existent around here.  The local dealers haven't even heard of it.
The local BMW dealer is using this stuff . Anyone on here using this lube?
The contents of Moly-Graph cited in the first post is revealed here.
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