Author Topic: Timing Off???  (Read 5809 times)

Offline robdiaz44

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 12
Timing Off???
« on: July 20, 2016, 06:58:52 PM »
Hey all...I'm new to this forum and would appreciate any input. I've got an '85 K100rs with roughly 45K on it (at least that's what the odometer says). I took a picture (using the reflection in a mirror) behind the Hall Effect Sensor...all the posts I've read talk about the notch on that circular plate lining up with the TDC marker. This is WAY off. Am I in some serious trouble here?

I've been trouble shooting some intermittent rough idling and stalling out issues. Recent service in the last few weeks: new fuel filter, fuel lines, Fuel Pressure Regulator, vacuum line and caps. When I started the bike back up, nothing seemed to have changed idled rough and would often times cut out if I did not have the "throttle advance" (choke) engaged. There was an intermittent metallic "whining" sound that I believe was the ball bearing/spring contraption in the fuel tank return valve. I pulled the tank off to remove the bearing and spring and decided to check the hall sensor and the "timing" markings...

Any input would be much appreciated.

Regards,

Rob

 
  • Olympia, wa
  • 1985 BMW k100rs

Offline Motorhobo

  • +25 years of K75
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  • Posts: 1530
Re: Timing Off???
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 08:27:20 PM »
I don't know about the timing, but I had similar symptoms and it turned it to be a vacuum problem due to cracked rubber bits in the throttle body assembly. Did you do the test with the map gas or propane to see if there is a vacuum leak somewhere?

1994/1995 K75 ABS Frankenbike: original engine 136k miles, frame from Gary Weaver (RIP), 173k miles -- Current Odometer: 198k miles
1994 K75 since 2013, 82,000 mi (19k mine) w/California Sidecar Friendship II Sidecar & Black Lab 'Miss B' - RIP

Past: 1974 Honda 550/4 (first bike), 1994 K75 (sold), 1995 K75 ABS (parts bike), Sidecar Dog & Best Bud 'Bo' - RIP

Offline Laitch

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Re: Timing Off???
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 08:56:01 PM »
There was an intermittent metallic "whining" sound that I believe was the ball bearing/spring contraption in the fuel tank return valve. I pulled the tank off to remove the bearing and spring and decided to check the hall sensor and the "timing" markings...
Did you start it up after you removed the bearing and spring from the valve? If you haven't yet, do it now before messing with the Hall Sensor.
  • Along the Ridley in Vermont.
  • 1995 K75 89,000 miles

Offline jay1622

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Re: Timing Off???
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 09:11:53 PM »
Good evening. If ya don't mind me asking... What was the position of the motor when you took that picture? At TDC on that bike (4 cyl) you should be ensuring the #1 piston (forward most cylinder) was at the top of the compression stroke. Just figured I'd ask. Otherwise, it'd be hard to determine anything else from the picture.
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline jay1622

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Re: Timing Off???
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 09:45:43 PM »
I PM'ed you two links. Open the first link and go to page 147 for ignition specs. Page 27 for TDC spec (zyl = cyl).

Hope those help.

Oh... In the spirit of all things electrical, what's the condition of the ground contact at the trans case from the battery, the coils, the coil ground and the ground contact points below the tank? You haven't painted the coil mounting bracket, right? Any shorts in the system? I just re-wrapped my entire harness, but not before repairing three separate cases of exposed wire from rubbing. Back to the coils... Have you tested them? Pop the spark plug wire cover off and run it in complete darkness. Any arching?

Fuel system question... Was it running rough before that service you mentioned? Any bypassed crud in the lines that gets past that filter go to one of two places: the injectors or back into the tank. Injectors serviced? Replaced?

Vacuum... How are the boots? Motorhobo had a good point there. Are the vacuum caps on cyls 1, 2 & 3's throttle body? What's the condition of the vacuum hose on the throttle body for cyl 4?
  • Charlotte
  • Previous: 1986 K75S, 1977 R75/7, 1999 R1200C, 2003 R1150GS, 2001 F650GS, 2005 R1200RT... Current: 2005 R1200RT and my Brick, a 1988 K75S

Offline robdiaz44

  • Motobrick Curious
  • Posts: 12
Re: Timing Off???
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 11:47:05 PM »
Hey, thanks everyone. To answer in the order received:

I don't know about the timing, but I had similar symptoms and it turned it to be a vacuum problem due to cracked rubber bits in the throttle body assembly. Did you do the test with the map gas or propane to see if there is a vacuum leak somewhere?
* I have not done the vacuum leak test - though, I recently replaced fuel pressure regulator along with the vacuum hose/line that goes from it to Cylinder 4...and replaced all the vacuum caps along the throttle body area. The caps were really cracked...the vacuum line going to FPR was cracked at the FPR connection.

Did you start it up after you removed the bearing and spring from the valve? If you haven't yet, do it now before messing with the Hall Sensor.
* I have not started up the bike since removing the bearing and spring. I cleaned the tank out again (there was still some floating dirt/grime that I didn't get the first time I did it) and I was also waiting for my new Fuel Pump basket filter to arrive. I was going to install that tomorrow, put everything back together again and see if I can at least get the bike to start.

Good evening. If ya don't mind me asking... What was the position of the motor when you took that picture? At TDC on that bike (4 cyl) you should be ensuring the #1 piston (forward most cylinder) was at the top of the compression stroke. Just figured I'd ask. Otherwise, it'd be hard to determine anything else from the picture.
* I have no clue what position the motor was in when I took the picture - you kind of answered a question that I had (though did not post)...will the notches on the circular plate stay in the same place, or do they rotate with the motor? Sounds like they do rotate and that my freaking out about the notches not matching up with the TDC marker was all for naught  :mbird :yes

I PM'ed you two links. Open the first link and go to page 147 for ignition specs. Page 27 for TDC spec (zyl = cyl).

Hope those help.

Oh... In the spirit of all things electrical, what's the condition of the ground contact at the trans case from the battery, the coils, the coil ground and the ground contact points below the tank? You haven't painted the coil mounting bracket, right? Any shorts in the system? I just re-wrapped my entire harness, but not before repairing three separate cases of exposed wire from rubbing. Back to the coils... Have you tested them? Pop the spark plug wire cover off and run it in complete darkness. Any arching?

Fuel system question... Was it running rough before that service you mentioned? Any bypassed crud in the lines that gets past that filter go to one of two places: the injectors or back into the tank. Injectors serviced? Replaced?

Vacuum... How are the boots? Motorhobo had a good point there. Are the vacuum caps on cyls 1, 2 & 3's throttle body? What's the condition of the vacuum hose on the throttle body for cyl 4?
* Thanks a bunch for the links that you PM'd me...MUCH appreciated.
     Ground contacts - both at transfer case and under tank have recently been "serviced". Have not checked the coil ground (don't know how to do that one). I, personally, have not painted the coil mounting bracket...but will check. Haven't found any other shorts in the system...when I did the "Deoxit cleanse" on the bike, I checked all the wires pretty carefully for tears, burn marks, corrosion, etc. I ended up replacing the under the fuel tank connector (it was toast) with the "spare" in the relay box. This solved last summers stalling out and non-starting issues. Haven't tested the coils...once, and if, I get the bike started, I will check for arching.
     Fuel System - prior to recent service, the bike idled okay...it was just bogging down on me when I opened the throttle to about 2500 to 3000rpm's. I cleaned the tank out today...did have some floaties in their for sure. I took the fuel pump and filter out yesterday...kept them connected via the fuel line. I put the pump in a container of gas and ran it using jumper cables and my motorcycle battery...fuel flowed through in good amount. I have plans to get the injectors cleaned/refurbished. Is there a way that I can test to see if the injectors are working before actually sending them out?

Well, hopefully that covers everything for now...thanks again guys! 


  • Olympia, wa
  • 1985 BMW k100rs

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