Author Topic: Fuel Issue Perplexed (Read 17339 times)

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #50 on:** October 10, 2020, 12:35:43 PM »

Verified the fuse block, all wiring and connections clean and tight.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #51 on:** October 10, 2020, 02:37:04 PM »

When you say no resistance, do you mean the resistance is zero ohms?

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #52 on:** October 10, 2020, 03:56:44 PM »

I mean my ohm meter, which to be fair is a harbor freight very far from good unit, shows zero change in resistance from baseline on those contact points. On any setting on the meter.

rbm · « **Reply #53 on:** October 10, 2020, 05:03:00 PM »

Does your HF meter show "OL" when it is turned on and not in use, and the same display is shown when you measure "no resistance"?

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #54 on:** October 10, 2020, 05:51:30 PM »

It reads a 1. With the decimal point moving based on range, so I know it is functional.

rbm · « **Reply #55 on:** October 10, 2020, 06:32:54 PM »

Quote from: Cherokee2072 on October 10, 2020, 05:51:30 PM

It reads a 1. With the decimal point moving based on range, so I know it is functional.

Oh, I wasn't challenging the functionality of your meter. I was probing to find out what you were observing while testing. Some meters show OL on the display when not in use, meaning Over Limit. When set to read resistance, that means resistance is too high for the meter to show or over the limit. In your case, the meter displays a 1. It means the same thing as OL.

The phrase no resistance to most electronics engineers means basically a short circuit connection is being measured; there is no resistance to the flow of electricity in essence. What you actually measured was open circuit or infinite resistance, I believe.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #56 on:** October 10, 2020, 06:42:20 PM »

Absolutely, and I appreciate the questions. I have fairly extensive mechanical skills that do not extend to FI systems. My hobby vehicles have been older cars/jeeps and carbureted motorcycles. FI systems and even electronic ignition are something I have avoided up til now for the most part. I suppose at almost 50 I have to learn...

daveson · « **Reply #57 on:** October 10, 2020, 08:46:10 PM »

Another way to check for a short to fuse six is remove it and the FI relay. With your multimeter on 20 Volts at 30 and 87, you should read 0 Volts. If you read 12 Volts you have a short between the relay and the fuse. To check the other 87 pin remove the plug to the injector harness (under tank, left hand side) and repeat the test.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #58 on:** October 11, 2020, 10:25:18 AM »

On with relay disassembly. I can register a click on the latest relay that stopped starting the bike. When I opened it up there is no sign of corrosion on the contact points and I am registering resistance 730 ohm across the 87 contacts when the contact gap is closed manually. It appears to be working properly, at least from my limited knowledge. Short in the harness between the relay and fuse block? Disassembled the original relay, no burned points, but a lot of corrosion. I cleaned it, and got a weak click but it still gives a no start condition as the other relay. Tracing wires now, there are no obvious rubbed areas but a few hardened spots in the rubber casing that could possibly have been created by heat.

rbm · « **Reply #59 on:** October 11, 2020, 01:16:57 PM »

The coil resistance seems correct and the fact that it operates is encouraging.

Use a contact cleaner and mild abrasive paper like 3000 grit wet-n-dry to recondition the contacts. They may appear to close but may still offer high resistance to current flow because of burning residue. The contacts should be smooth, very slightly crowned and bright metallic in colour. Test the continuity between the Pin 30 and Pin 87 terminals with the relay operating; it should be very low resistance, around 0.2 Ohms. Use a magnifying glass to look for residue on the faces of the contacts and get rid of any that may be there.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #60 on:** October 11, 2020, 02:41:24 PM »

Contacts cleaned and look good. Ohm meter set at 20k reads .02 on both the old and new relay. I did find a suspect splice in a wire that was under the frame rail over the air box. It leads to red/green and black feeder into the main harness. Pic is of the connector and unwrapped splice. It was taped, but poorly. Upon tracing this it goes to a mystery switch on my dash pad. 1st position left of the key. My bike has no heated grips or ABS. The flashers are clearly marked. Wires from this switch are gray and black and meet the red/green and black harness feed in what looks like a stock connection but I cannot find it on my schematic.

**addition***
Green/red and black according to what I can see are the altitude plug. Why on earth would that be wired to a switch?

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #61 on:** October 11, 2020, 02:48:54 PM »

Where are you reading that .02K? What pins are you connecting to the meter?

When using a meter, it's best to use the lowest scale that doesn't read OL. Accuracy is a function of the full range of a given scale. Thus, the 200 ohm scale can be up to 100 times more accurate than the 20K scale.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #62 on:** October 11, 2020, 02:52:11 PM »

Good afternoon TMG,

That is across the 30 and 87 pins (both 87) with contacts closed on the relay.

Am I correct about that being the altitude plug someone connected to a switch btw?

Thanks

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #63 on:** October 11, 2020, 03:01:30 PM »

.02K seems a bit high for the resistance across the contacts. Try a reading on a lower scale. You might need to clean them again. I've had good luck with Deoxit on a piece of paper. Wet the paper with the Deoxit and push and pull the paper between the contacts while gently pressing them together. Then a quick spritz of the Deoxit to flush anything that may be hanging in the gap.

It does look like the altitude plug. Is it above the coils on the left hand side of the bike? A previous owner may have had the bike in an area where they were constantly going above and below the 4000ft altitude and got tired of stopping to mess with the jumper.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #64 on:** October 11, 2020, 03:14:04 PM »

I will work with the contacts. I live in the Northwest NC at about 4000’. Previously the bike spent most of its life in the foothills, can’t imagine why, but it looks like that is what they did. It is the only wiring combination that makes sense with the diagram.

daveson · « **Reply #65 on:** October 11, 2020, 03:27:48 PM »

Unplug that switch, that could be where your problem is. I'd check for a short there.

rbm · « **Reply #66 on:** October 11, 2020, 03:43:10 PM »

Agreed. The Green/Red is power from the FI relay. If there is a short in that part of the wiring, it will contribute to your problem.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #67 on:** October 11, 2020, 03:53:57 PM »

The altitude plug's only discernible function seems to be to to make an infinitesimal reduction in the bike's contribution to the rising sea levels. You can remove and ignore it.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #68 on:** October 11, 2020, 04:14:43 PM »

I have disconnected the switch to the altitude plug. Relay isn’t clicking when installed back in the bike, but does when power applied directly to 85 and 86. I have constant power to 30 in the plug. 86 is powering from the switch, so that would mean a ground issue from the ecu pin 7 to pin 85 in the relay plug preventing the relay from operating if I am reading the flow chart correctly.

So, as I am reading this my ignition control may be bad, and intermittently working/not, or I may simply have a fault in the wire between the ignition box and the relay plug.

The Mighty Gryphon · « **Reply #69 on:** October 11, 2020, 04:48:59 PM »

Check the continuity of the wire. Wiggle it around to see if it's intermittent.

rbm · « **Reply #70 on:** October 11, 2020, 05:14:06 PM »

Check the state of the Kill switch, making sure that it is not off.

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #71 on:** October 11, 2020, 05:29:49 PM »

Kill switch is on. Checked it 2x just to be sure. Disconnected battery. Pulled the tank, went to the ignition box . Pulled the plug and went directly into pin 7 of the plug with test light probe. Inserted test blade into 85 on relay plug. Applied 12 v and grounded back to test light. Strong light and I cannot make it go out manipulating the wire. So the problem would appear to be either the ignition box or whatever controls the signal to ground pin 7 from the ignition box. However this was tested before, and was working at that time, at least twice. So it has to be an intermittent problem, but as of yet I haven’t been able to find the exact source. Possibly the ground fault to the unneeded switch created a problem elsewhere...

Cherokee2072 · « **Reply #72 on:** October 25, 2020, 05:14:54 PM »

***Update***
Finally had time to get back to the Brick. I replaced the CDI, which gave me a different issue (no spark). Spent 3 hours working back through the troubleshooting chart testing the ecm and CDI. I believe that was the culprit but is a defective part in a different manner since I did not have the no spark issue before replacing the CDI. As much as I loved the K the short ride I did get in on it I believe this one is not meant to be. I thank you all for the expertise, patience and extensive knowledge base you are willing to share. Regretfully, I will be parting this one out. I will list it on the sale board here first before going to eBay with it. I have precious little time to ride, and while I enjoy maintaining my own bikes, this one seems to have a gremlin I cannot chase down. Not sure I would ever trust it for a 3 state Saturday ride.

Thank you all again!

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Author Topic: Fuel Issue Perplexed (Read 17339 times)