140,000kms and no spline lube – will it be a mess?

[lilau3]

 Hi Motobrickers,
I’m looking getting my first Motobrick. An ‘86 K100 RS with 140,000kms on it. The current owner has had it for 28 years. It seems to be in great shape and from what I can tell it has been very well serviced with documents for almost everything. However……..
Because it was serviced and BMW dealerships in Sydney and then Melbourne there doesn’t seem to be any evidence of the splines having being lubed… ever.
What think you Motobrickers? Will the splines be completely poked by now or is there a chance they have survived? It seems to drive OK but I don’t have much experience with what these bikes should feel like.
It’s unlikely I’ll be able to inspect the splines as I don’t have the experience to pull it apart in a driveway in less than 1 hour.
For $3,000 is this worth a punt?
In the worst case situation does any one know the cost to have these fixed in Australia?
Thanks in advance.

[Martin]

I can't really believe if it was serviced by BMW the splines weren't lubed.  :nono If they haven't been done they will be worn by now.  :dunno  A good second shaft and final drive could set you back $500.00 +. The prices are all over the place, and there are bargains to be had if you're patient. I would probably not pay $3000.00 for it, there are later ones out there. However it is your call, I'd see whether he is willing to let you check the splines it's a well documented easy job. It normally takes me about 45min, but I don't know whether you have the necessary tools or equipment. Also you need to post where you are located as there may be an inmate willing to help. If you are anywhere near me I could give you a hand.
Regards Martin.

[lilau3]

Hi Martin, thanks for the reply.


I could be wrong but I have been told that lubing the splines was never part of the official BMW service schedule, so hurried technicians don't bother, they just follow the book. I'm in Melbourne and the bike has been serviced yearly at South Melbourne BMW (probably for at least the last 10 years).


I have the tools and could probably do the job given a couple of hours. I just think the owner will be reluctant to let someone unqualified pull his bike apart. He's done everything at 'official' dealers.


By all accounts everything else looks good but obviously don't really want to drop another $1K on it.


Looking at bikesales.com.au there doesn't seem to by much else in as good condition for $3K, but maybe I need to keep looking. However my only real concern with the bike is the unknown spline condition.

[Martin]

 :2thumbup: Good luck on whatever you decide.
Regards Martin.

[Chaos]

Only takes an hour or less to pull the rear end off and have a look-see.  Either they've been lubed or they're about ready to give up, make the sale conditional on their condition.

[lilau3]

Thanks @Chaos, I think that's the best idea. I'll see if I can get him to bring it round to my place and check it.


Worst case he goes away with freshly lubed (but worn) splines.


Best case the splines have actually been lubed (and they get lubed some more), he get's his cheque, I get a sweet new bike.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

I could be wrong, but $3000 sounds high for an '86 with that many km behind it.   If indeed it looks to be in very good condition you could make a firm offer contingent on inspecting the splines and finding them to be in good shape showing no wear.  You should be in the driver's seat on this deal.  Around here an '86 RS can languish on the market for several years, and then sell for less than the asking price.

I would think that neglected drive shaft splines would not have covered this distance without having failed already.  Clutch splines are a different kettle of fish.  I have yet to buy a bike that has had them done, even at 92,000 miles.  Fortunately, wear on those splines can be minimal and the only problem you will encounter is hard down shifting , especially from 2nd to 1st.

[daveson]

i got an 86 model k100rt with 70,000km but odo wasnt working with receipts from bmw shop for about 15 years
guessing from the tyre repacements its done 90,000
no receipts mentioned spline lube, clutch splines were almost perfect, final drive splines almost perfect
forward drive shaft splines almost perfect but rear splines about 10%wear
i got another for spares with 175,000 again odo wasnt working very neglected
drive shaft rear spline very worn but final drive good
the free play was a little more when changing direction on the rear tyre
if yours is worn im guessing u will have time to wait for a cheap repair
it seems to me that the cheaper part will wear first
i would take the risk, not waste his time, and consider 2000
maybe another test ride with basic checks like a car, head gasket, smoke,oil leaks, overheating

[technostructural]

Hi Martin, thanks for the reply.


I could be wrong but I have been told that lubing the splines was never part of the official BMW service schedule, so hurried technicians don't bother, they just follow the book. I'm in Melbourne and the bike has been serviced yearly at South Melbourne BMW (probably for at least the last 10 years).


I have the tools and could probably do the job given a couple of hours. I just think the owner will be reluctant to let someone unqualified pull his bike apart. He's done everything at 'official' dealers.


By all accounts everything else looks good but obviously don't really want to drop another $1K on it.


Looking at bikesales.com.au there doesn't seem to by much else in as good condition for $3K, but maybe I need to keep looking. However my only real concern with the bike is the unknown spline condition.

My understanding is that lubing the splines is absolutely part of the official BMW service schedule. Whether it was always followed is another story.

My cursory thoughts are that it is hard to tell a book from its cover. My bike appeared to be neglected, but the splines were in great shape. I've seen the reverse. Generally if the forward splines are worn out, the driveshaft and FD will be too. Look there first because it takes very little time. Chris Harris has some great YouTube videos showing you how, I believe titled "Pre-Buy Inspection".

Cheers.

[Laitch]

I could be wrong but I have been told that lubing the splines was never part of the official BMW service schedule, so hurried technicians don't bother, they just follow the book.

We've all been told wrong stuff. Welcome to the club! :giggles

Take a look at this—the fifth entry from the bottom on the first page.


I would think $3000 is too much for it, even in Australia. I'd want to see those splines; otherwise I'd knock off the cost of a replacement rear drive and transmission then offer that amount to him. You can bargain up from there.

[lilau3]

Thanks for the link @Laitch.  Given everything else has been meticulously serviced I would then be very surprised if the splines have been skipped. I'm getting the owner to find documentation in relation to this. If he can't come up with it then I'll renegotiate price and/or get the final drive pulled off.


Yes the $3K sounds high but on test drive the thing ran beautifully. 35degC heat, 2 up, pulled like a train, no smoke, oil leaks, or overheating. Very impressive given it's age.


I think the price on these things may start to go up now the 80's loving hipster crowd is getting interested in them (er, I may be a culprit here ;) ).

[technostructural]

The type of guy that has BMW service his bike and never picks up a wrench in his own hands can go either way. On the one hand, you're saved from sloppy fixes and cut corners and a bunch of RTV gasket maker smeared around everything.

On the other hand, you're putting all of your faith in a mechanic shop, whose only real motivation is to rake in cash.

I feel strongly that you should have the final drive pulled off one way or the other. Whether it's by you or by a mechanic mutually agreed upon (even at your expense). Spending a bit of money for this certainty would be well worth it. It could still ride relatively well with nearly worn out splines back there.

The lack of knowledge by owners never seems to cease amazing me. I saw an ad for a K100 near me and it said that the "shaft oil had just been changed - like new!". The fact that someone is alleging that splines don't ever need to be lubed I suppose is no less ludicrous.

[The Mighty Gryphon]

Take a look at this—the fifth entry from the bottom on the first page.

Note the bottom of the page:  *invoiced as a separate item 

Does that mean that spline lube is an extra cost option on the scheduled service, and probably depends on whether or not the owner has recently won the PowerBall lottery?

[Laitch]

Does that mean that spline lube is an extra cost option on the scheduled service, and probably depends on whether or not the owner has recently won the PowerBall lottery?

That, or it could means a Credit Karma rating above 750/pre-approval from JG Wentworth.

[daveson]

now that ive seen the add i think you would have to be happy if you get it for 2500
im guessing the bmw shop is in ringwood same as mine was, they looked after mine well for the PO
on my bikes almost all the wear is on the shafts and the final drives are good

[lilau3]

Hi all


I decided to walk away from this one. Basically it had been serviced at BMW Southbank for the past 10 years. At no point had they lubed the splines. While it was in the service schedule it is deemed 'optional', i.e. if the owner requests it they will do it at extra cost. So in the end too much risk for too higher price.


By all accounts the servicing place in Ringwood comes recommended by everyone I have talked to (that's probably why they have a massive backlog of work). They also said it was unlikely that BMW Southbank would have lubed the splines.


Anyway the search continues. I think I'll aim for a nice K75 so if anyone in the Melbourne area knows of one.....

[Laitch]

While it was in the service schedule it is deemed 'optional', i.e. if the owner requests it they will do it at extra cost.

It wasn't "optional" in the service schedule to which I linked in post #9: it was annual (or every 40K miles for bikes made from 1990 onward) and billable. The schedule didn't mention whether kneecapping would apply if spline lubing was rejected. :giggles

[BlitzenGruv]

probably depends on whether or not the owner has recently won the PowerBall lottery?

I thought that was a prerequisite for having BMW service anything.
I just hope that I can wait until I need new rear rubber before I do this.

[BlitzenGruv]

(or every 40K miles for bikes made from 1990 onward) and billable. The schedule didn't mention whether kneecapping would apply if spline lubing was rejected. :giggles

Good, mine shows only 33K on the odometer.
I thought that kneecapping was an IRA thing, not something the Germans did. Maybe they invented it in the 40s?