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TECHNICAL MOTOBRICK WRENCHING In Remembrance of Inge K. => The Motobrick Workshop => Topic started by: TypeRated on May 09, 2017, 11:17:04 AM
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My desperate search for front turn signal lenses for my K1100RS hasn't yielded anything.
Please help! I need some ideas as to what I should do... or someone sell me some lenses.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y181/Destru6969/K1100RS/AED118BF-2B1B-4D2C-AF88-0E32CBFAA90B_zps4xdi1axk.jpg)
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Are you looking for these:
06 LENS LEFT 1 46631453001 $17.25
06 LENS RIGHT 1 46631453002 $17.25
??
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Are you looking for these:
06 LENS LEFT 1 46631453001 $17.25
06 LENS RIGHT 1 46631453002 $17.25
??
Yes, those are the ones. I tried going through my nearest dealer, but they're on back order indefinitely from BMW.
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... they're on back order indefinitely from BMW.
Ahh
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There's gotta be custom 3D printing services available. If there isn't there will be soon!
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There are lens molding kits but you need a lens to make the mold. Laitch posted the link.
Regards Martin.
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greetings...
i gotts a pair butt they aints for sale to any iconic22less bricker...
j o
You're killin me johnny
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We need to get a Chinese supplier making these parts. Or a 3-D printer.
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Or a 3-D printer.
I could make this happen, if there's a 3D model of one. It'd even be clear, for the most part.
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I know almost nothing about 3-D printers.
Could one be 3-D scanned?
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Could one be 3-D scanned?
The short answer is, yes. However, not by me. When a part is 3D scanned the result is a "point cloud" that then has to be stitched together, much like a 3D version of a "connect the dots" with no numbers on any of the dots. Also, I do not have a 3D scanner.
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But I will bet there is a company that can do it for a fee.
Sooner or later spares will run out, so a plan is needed
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Bikebandit.com lists them for $22 each, does not say anything about being NLA but who knows. Might be worth a shot....
http://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/1995-bmw-k1100rs/o/m62#sch354176
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My desperate search . . .Please help! I need some ideas as to what I should do...
You should consider doing what many of us do. Bookmark as many Kbike parts suppliers in the USA and UK on eBay and the rest of the Internet, bookmark sales sections of forums like IBMWR's site then visit them every day. When you find what you're looking for—even if it's only one of a pair that you need—you buy it and keep looking.
There's not much else you can do except offer yourself in bondage as trade for parts then wait patiently for a generous master. How desperate are you, really?
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As a temporary solution get some amber acrylic sheet. Use a hot air gun too bend it into shape, cut to size. You might even be able to get the sheet with the reflective cross hatch molded into it. Alternatively go to a car wrecker find a car lens that is bigger and has a curve close to what you require mold it with a heat gun cut it to shape.
Regards Martin.
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Another solution I have seen is to ditch the mirror/turn signal assembly and fair the mounting area into the fairing with Bondo filler.
Get bar mounted mirrors and either mount them on the ends of the handlebars or through the holes on the clutch and throttle grip assemblies. That's how the K1(and most modern sport bikes) does it.
Then get a pair of turn signals from eBay and mount them where the mirrors used to be. Picking them out will be the hard part because there seems to be hundreds of designs to choose from.
This route requires a repaint of the fairing where you covered up the old mirror mounting locations, but it frees you forever from trying to locate the mirrors and lenses that BMW doesn't want to supply anymore, and judging from the bike I saw it doesn't look too bad either.
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A couple of years ago I had some replacement instrument glasses made up by a local Perspex shop and 15 years earlier I had him bend some Perspex for me. If you have a local shop that does this sort of work it might be worth a look.
Regards Martin.
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I have one lens with the hole where the screw goes in damaged but it is otherwise ok, certainly good enough to be used for making a mould, off hand I do not remember if it is for the left or right side.
Let me know if you are interested.
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Depending on how desperate you are:
http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_odkw=BMW+K1100+blinker&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XBMW+K1100+rs+blinker.TRS0&_nkw=BMW+K1100+rs+blinker&_sacat=0
There are some other pretty strange looking options in that list -- but the beat-up ones are the only OEM ones.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/BMW-K1100-K1-K100-RS-Spiegel-Blinker-links-704/112399343502?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D43785%26meid%3Decca83325b0145b6927839a5e08e9e7a%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D3%26sd%3D201852050624
I did some digging on the German FlyingBrick site and they're in the same boat you are -- production discontinued, backstock exhausted. There are a couple of threads where people agonized and traded off ideas, lots of theorizing about 3D printing, finding the mold from the original manufacturer etc. One guy says he's an insider and knows there will be an OEM run of this part somewhere sometime in 2017...in the meantime, maybe you can get the right one off ebay at the link above and make a mirror copy of it. According to the Germans, it's the left one that is nearly impossible to find unless someone starts making them again.
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Also you might try cutting some out of plexiglas. See the dog's goggles in my avatar? They're crap and scratch if you look at them funny, and replacement lenses costs $20 -- I'm much too much of a cheapskate to pay that. So I did this:
Got a sheet of 1/8 plexiglas and a jeweler's saw.
Got a piece of curved glass, a vase or something like that, that approximated the curvature of the lens.
Got an oven mitt, a heat gun and some felt and a Dremel with a fine grit sanding cylinder.
Cut a jig out of 1/2 in plywood to help cut the plexiglas -- using the jeweler's saw takes some practice and the jig helps.
Then I used the jeweler's saw to approximately cut out the piece to size. I laid it on the curved glass piece and heated it up till it was soft enough to bend, then put the felt over it and pressed it to the desired curvature with the oven mitt to protect my hand from the heat. Then I used the Dremel to sand and round down the edges.
What I got was Doggles lenses that don't scratch and that I can replace any time for about 20 minutes work.
Plexiglas comes in all colors and is cheap. It's worth a try. If you want to give it a shot let me know and I'll send you a picture of the jig.
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Thanks for the advice guys. I still have the majority of the left lens. If I have the time, I'll get it to some of my engineering friends with a 3D printer. Hopefully they can replicate them both based off the one I have. I'm still going to continue looking for new ones, but in the meantime, I'm going to give the plexi method a shot. If it doesn't work, I'm not at a big loss.
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I am not familiar with 3D printing so allow me a few questions.
First, can the process make transparent parts? I was under the impression that the resins used were opaque.
Second, is a UV resistant dye available to color the resin? I suppose an amber bulb can be used with a clear lens as an alternative.
Third, can the printer work in acrylic. This material has the optical properties the OEM lens was designed for. Light dispersion properties will be degraded if a different resin is used. In fact, even if acrylic is used, the molding process also has an impact on optical properties.
I have wondered how many lenses are needed to supply demand. If indeed it is possible to create a digital file of the lens(needed to make a 3D copy) it would be possible to make an injection mold and produce a "prototype" run of a couple thousand parts for a price lower than what BMW charges.
These parts would be identical to the OEM parts, depending on how accurate the digital "scan" of the OEM part was. The problem I see is that who ever produced them would be out of pocket $5-10K and would have to sell a lot of lenses to recoup the original investment.
It would be great if someone in Europe could get their hands on the original tooling and do a production run. They are close to the original, and some detective work should be able to find the tool that made these parts. I know it can be done because I have dealt with businesses that make parts for the auto restoration market that do just that. Someplace in the BMW organization is a person who disposes of old tooling. If I knew who that person was, I could start a very nice little business.
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There may be hope in the form of China they are already doing identical fuel pumps, temperature sender unit and a good alternative rear master cylinder . All we need now is a Chinese inmate to start making them or an inmate who speaks Chinese. :clap:
Regards Martin.
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The Flying Brickers have been waiting for the Chinese to jump on that ship for years -- no dice. Then one of them crunched the numbers and it was clear there weren't enough RS's sold to justify the setup costs to mass-produce and sell this particular part for an affordable price. They, too, are waiting for 3D printing ... Still waiting...
So -- no solution in sight. If you want the RS lens you're going to have to fabricate some facsimile yourself. Plexiglas seems like a reasonable way to go. Fortunately, there's no stringent inspection here, so that's not an issue. I'm told if they tried to get a plexiglas lens past German inspection, they'd be laughed down the block.
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If you can find someone willing to make a mold of a good set of lenses that looks like the best immediate solution. Home made lenses in OZ would have to be good enough to pass inspection especially in NSW where they have annual roadworthy inspections.
Regards Martin.
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The Chinese have no interest in anything that is not generic, fuel pumps, filters, etc. Anything model specific won't be of interest to them, unless it is something like those 175cc machines that are so prolific in S.E. Asia. And maybe even those won't interest them.
The only solution I see is short run prototype injection molding with unhardened aluminum tooling. This process is advertised as being cost effective for runs as short as a couple hundred parts. Of course, as Bill Clinton so famously said, it depends on the meaning of "cost effective".
The biggest hurdle I see is getting a digital file of the lens that can be used in a cnc machine to create the mold cavity. That is the part of the process I have no knowledge of. It does appear from advertising I have seen for modern dental work that there are ways of mapping a 3 dimensional object and creating another object from the map, so I guess the technology is there.
Does anyone here have any experience with 3D mapping? That would be the starting point for getting a price to make parts.
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That was also discussed by the Flying Brickers but 3D mapping seems to be more complex than anyone wanted to take a stab at. Easier would be 3D modeling a reasonable facsimile -- I could do that but don't have an RS -- it's got to be someone with skin in the game.
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I could do that but don't have an RS -- it's got to be someone with skin in the game.
Another stake has just been pounded into the heart of altruism.
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A thought came to mind.. I have a friend that uses a 3d printer and a CNC laser cutter to make custom personal vaporizers, (Google Friendly Fire Mods for pics) he uses the printer to build up the edges and internals then etches and cuts the side panels with the laser.
Why not try that with these lenses? Print a ring basically converting the mount to a flat plane or 2 angle (tent ^) surfaces, then glue a piece of lexan to it. Color and opacity of the ring could be anything and the lexan would be crystal clear amber and easy to form a straight line "tent" bend on a small to medium radius.
Still involves the 3d mapping and modeling to make it happen, but could prove to be a more viable alternative to printing the entire lenses.
Basically make one of these...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/8a7f287d257a363aabdebbac1bcbcd2e.jpg)
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I am contacting these guys for a price estimate to map a pair of RS lenses.
https://www.laserdesign.com/
With a map of the lenses I hope to be able to get a quote to build tooling for a short(100 to 1000) part injection molding prototype production run.
I have yet to contact a molder about tooling requirements. My concern is that prototype tooling may not be up to the task of processing to achieve the required optical properties. Another very large concern is that these lenses will require DOT certification. As anyone who has had the misfortune of having to deal with bureaucrats knows, this would be a deal breaker.
Don't get your hopes up too high. This is a side project and I don't have a lot of time to pursue it. It could be a couple months before I can say if this can be a feasible route to replacement lenses. The only good news I see is that BMW's stupid pricing provides a real opportunity to create a cost competetive alternative source for these lenses.
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Update: I have gotten a response from the mapping guys, and I have a ballpark number for mapping. I will be sending part photos later today for a firm quote.
To get files suitable for creating injection molding tooling for both lenses it will cost between $900 and $1300.
Next step is to see what it would cost to make tooling. It's been a long time since I was in the business, so I will need to talk to some people.
Motorhobo, how many of the German guys need lenses? How much would they pay? I am pretty sure I can hit BMWNA's stupid price point or maybe even beat it by a little.
Stay tuned...
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I just replied but the reply disappeared -- I hate that.
Anyway, I did put out the request for info but I suspect the DOT thing is a deal breaker both here and there. No DOT stamp == big fine. Maybe an individual user might get under the radar with a one-off 3D print, but mass producing safety-related parts without DOT approval? I'll come visit you in Alcatraz!
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Actually it would probably be the Federal prison in Warren PA. I had a friend who's brother got sent there. At my age it would actually be rather nice. More activities than a nursing home(tennis, basketball, swimming pool) excellent health care, decent food, and it's FREE!
As far as DOT, I will check into that as well. It may just apply to the original design. There are lots of people making replacement lenses for classic cars. I wonder how they handle DOT?
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Actually it would probably be the Federal prison in Warren PA. I had a friend who's brother got sent there. At my age it would actually be rather nice. More activities than a nursing home(tennis, basketball, swimming pool) excellent health care, decent food, and it's FREE!
Yes, and I hear they give a choice of companion in your cell -- either your dog or your motorcycle!
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Cell??? This is a white collar facility. My understanding is that you are held in cabins. The only real security is a perimeter fence to keep freeloaders out.
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Seriously? OK, then dog AND motorcycle, but by popular consensus, wife is persona non grata...wives would just spoil the fun!
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So to close this issue out, the Flying Bricks went through this whole line of inquiry last year and marked the thread as 'Closed' -- nobody's interested in taking any action to independently produce this part because 1) of the rumor that the OEM part will go into afterproduction soon based on the original OEM mold and 2) the likelyhood that the part will be produced on an as-needed basis soon in 3D print production and 3) lack of hard data about whether there's enough demand to justify the investment and lack of interest in taking the time to collect the aforementioned data.
So if it were me I'd do the 3D thing or try to make a fiberglass mold or do some mod of some other aftermarket signal thing -- but I wouldn't hold my breath for an aftermarket production run.
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I agree, it would take years to get back an investment in tooling and machine time.
Best advice is to remove the OEM mirrors and replace them with some nice looking aftermarket turn signals and mirrors. I know there is at least one bike out there that has been down that road, and really, it looked pretty good.
Not only can this option look good, these aftermarket parts are out there at prices such that you could replace both mirrors and turn signals for less than the price of a used mirror glass.