MOTOBRICK.COM
MOTOBRICK.COM => The MBdotCOM Community Center => Topic started by: Motorhobo on April 25, 2017, 09:51:48 AM
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I read it when I was 19. It was incomprehensible gibberish to me but I read it anyway. I remember skipping over the wrenchy parts because I had no interest in them and I remember that I didn't understand the philosophical parts, so basically I looked at each sentence, found the period, moved to the next sentence, and then told people I'd read the book.
Maybe I'll give it another try now that I'm older...but with my deteriorating eyesight I probably wouldn't even be able to find the period.
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I have vague memories as a teenager and always meant to re read it. I did leave me with very little respect for British engineering so my first string of cars and bikes were Triump's and MG's, naturally!
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I have vague memories as a teenager and always meant to re read it. I did leave me with very little respect for British engineering so my first string of cars and bikes were Triump's and MG's, naturally!
Boy, I'll bet that REALLY built up your respect for British engineering.
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Commiserations.I read his book twice when it came out,to get both parts comprehended.Failed,mostly.
In the end I just wanted to find out what bikes they were riding.That was hard enough for me.
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That was hard enough for me.
Did you find out?
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I remember seeing a paperback of that book at a friend's house back in the day. He said it really sucked.
I suspect that it was a really hip book title that came to the author in a cloud of psychedelic colors. The problem was that the "author" needed some pages of text behind the cover. Being the age of beatnik/hippy literature(Naked Lunch), that wouldn't be too hard. All you had to do was write some disjointed stream of consciousness and leave it to the reader to figure out what you were writing about.
What I recall from reviews about it was that it was another in the "journey of personal discovery" genre that was very popular at the time. These were books written by self-absorbed 20-something trust fund dorks who went through some experience that enabled them to convince themselves that they really weren't assholes after all, despite what everyone around them thought.
Being the late 60's youth culture the title was brilliant and sold a couple million copies...
...that nobody read. Of course, you couldn't admit it. That would be uncool.
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Never read it, didn't even want to, so now I am condemned and uncool. I went in the army in 1969 also uncool. :dunno
Woe is me.
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I read it and enjoyed it.
Most of it has long ago been forgotten but I still remember one passage where they are pending the night by the side of the road on a steep hill and keep getting disturbed by 18 wheelers downshifting to make the climb. Not sure why but that a very evocative passage and one I often think about to this day as I down shift passing a house or something on the side of the road.
Funny what sticks in the memory.
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I did leave me with very little respect for British engineering so my first string of cars and bikes were Triump's and MG's, naturally!
Interesting. One of the bikes used on the trip was Japanese; the other was German.
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Did you find out?
Sort of.
The CB77 was not imported where I was a lad.I imagined a CD 175 cc but bigger.My memory sees only CB's beyond 175. The Beemer was more identifiable.
'Should'ave gone on my contempory Triumph.
The Art of Motorcycle Maintenace and Zen.
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Persig and son. (http://www.honda305.com/zen/)
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The Art of Motorcycle Maintenace and Zen.
:hehehe :hehehe
I read the book multiple times, enjoyed the book, and still have a copy. I have had my kids read it. The profound point from the book is that the machine you are working on is YOU. You can call it self-help/hippie genre, but it is more than that. We are not all German engineers from birth :bmwsmile . The reality is that we all face mental/mechanical logjams when working on machines...this site is kinda geared towards that. My first one was on my K on initial start. Fuel pump running only when the start button is pushed was a foreign concept to me based upon previous experience. Came to this site, was welcomed by a few, slapped by a few, but am still here. I think what keeps me here is the humor and mechanical intrigue. Back to Zen and the ART of MM...how you approach/perceive a problem is of more significance than the problem itself AND often has a direct bearing upon the solution. YOU CANNOT SEPARATE ART FROM MECHANICS!
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The profound point from the book is that the machine you are working on is YOU. . . .
Piffle!
A work that does that with infinitely more skill and less arcane verbosity is John Muir's How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive and it actually helps the reader repair something. :giggles
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Piffle!
:bmwsmile Had a witty response...then thought why bother? Never owned or worked on a Volkswagen. I have worked on several BMW's, do enjoy philosophy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoOVFO4Qnqg), and have dealt with children of a troubled nature. That's why farming appeals to me! I guess ART (literature) appeals to different people differently.
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I guess ART (literature) appeals to different people differently.
I agree, jack, and it is found in the most unlikely places. Divine Right's Trip is a brilliant handbook on discovering and nurturing a competent self. It unfolded among the pages of the old Whole Earth Catalog. It's right up there with Nicholas Nickleby in that regard.
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Personally I found The Selfish Gene one of the most thought provoking books I have read.
On the whole though I am more of a literature reader than anything. Nothing beats a good novel. My mother wa a novelist, journalist and book critic so there was always vast numbers of books in the house. Reading is a habit I have tried very hard to instil into my children with a spectacular lack of success, to my eternal regret.
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My Dad brought home a junked/non-running 1963 Volkswagen Beetle and gave it to me for my first car when I was sixteen. He also gave me a copy of the aforementioned "How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" and told me to get to work if I wanted a car when I was sixteen. Around the same time he bought a Honda CB175 for himself. I later wrecked the VW and the Honda became my first motorcycle. (which I also wrecked and ended up in the ER) I've read both How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive and Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. (around the same time actually) They are both excellent works.
From the NYTimes obit (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/24/books/robert-pirsig-dead-wrote-zen-and-the-art-of-motorcycle-maintenance.html?_r=0), “The motorcycle is mainly a mental phenomenon. People who have never worked with steel have trouble seeing this.” “A study of the art of motorcycle maintenance is really a miniature study of the art of rationality itself.”
Plato's Cave analogy goes a long way here...
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I started reading it for the first time recently. Sort of had a hard time getting into it, and put it down. My initial thoughts were A. everything he's describing here I could just go do myself, on my own bike, which would be more fun and B. this guy sounds like a real pain in the ass to travel with.
With his passing, I may give it another go.
Andy
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All you had to do was write some disjointed stream of consciousness and leave it to the reader to figure out what you were writing about.
That's what they said about Socrates and Deuteronomy.
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That's what they said about Socrates and Deuteronomy.
:hehehe
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I have vague memories as a teenager and always meant to re read it. I did leave me with very little respect for British engineering so my first string of cars and bikes were Triump's and MG's, naturally!
who out there, besides me, owned a Hillman Minx?????
american standard, metric, british wentworth all those options made a crescent wrench the "go to" tool!
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Hillman Minx no but I did have a Hillman Hunter Estate in 1982 - the car was a 1970 I think. It was my second car aged 18 which I drove down to the South of France from London with some friends. It did great - until I wrapped it around a French tree because I was trying to rally drive down a narrow french lane. I still miss that old tank in a strange way.
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Commiserations.I read his book twice when it came out,to get both parts comprehended.Failed,mostly.
In the end I just wanted to find out what bikes they were riding.That was hard enough for me.
Yup.
Too much Zen and not enough about bikes for me.
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Piffle!
A work that does that with infinitely more skill and less arcane verbosity is John Muir's How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive and it actually helps the reader repair something. :giggles
Rescued and restored two Super Beetles in my youth. That book holds a special place in my heart (and mind). Used to sit and admire the illustrations.
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If you own a motorcycle you should read it. It's been many years since I have, but as I recall, some parts are a bit boring but overall it's an interesting read with a practical message as well as deeper meaning.
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Piffle!
A work that does that with infinitely more skill and less arcane verbosity is John Muir's How To Keep Your Volkswagen Alive and it actually helps the reader repair something. :giggles
I spent an inordinate amount of time in high school hunched over either my '73 Super Beetle or my best friend's (may he RIP) '70 Beetle with that book. Very fond memories. Wrenching on the Brick reminds me of that experience; simple systems, straightforward (for the most part) engineering decisions.
Having my hands in and on the bike, even if it's just checking bolt heads to verify they haven't come loose, is a visceral reminder of the symbiotic relationship I've entered with this bike: I'm keeping it alive and together so it can keep me alive and together. Wrenching is every bit as therapeutic as riding, just in a different way. I recall reading parts of ZatAoMM, but I'm not sure any of it stuck with me. Maybe I should re-read it. Or maybe I should just go for a ride...
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I spent an inordinate amount of time in high school hunched over either my '73 Super Beetle or my best friend's (may he RIP) '70 Beetle with that book. Very fond memories. Wrenching on the Brick reminds me of that experience; simple systems, straightforward (for the most part) engineering decisions.
Having my hands in and on the bike, even if it's just checking bolt heads to verify they haven't come loose, is a visceral reminder of the symbiotic relationship I've entered with this bike: I'm keeping it alive and together so it can keep me alive and together. Wrenching is every bit as therapeutic as riding, just in a different way. I recall reading parts of ZatAoMM, but I'm not sure any of it stuck with me. Maybe I should re-read it. Or maybe I should just go for a ride...
Recommend a ride. :mm
Not really trying to hijack this topic but...
The John Muir "How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive" was my initial introduction to the air-cooled VW world after I was given a very rusted out 1969 Bus, which I traded for a great 1966 split window which served us for many years until transferred overseas. The often humorous and detailed illustrations along with statements such as in the "How to Buy a Volkswagen" section: "If it is a Bus, crawl around in the back and feel how it is to be back there. Look at the head lining. How long will it last? Have happy people been back here balling and talking and laughing and living?" sold me on its practical use.
Today as a dealership Chevy "auto technician" I often think back to this book about its practical advice for the home mechanic. With my daughters 1970 and 1974 standard Bugs at the house I still use it.
Wish there were more like it but todays vehicles with the extensive use of electronics/LANs/modules frequently require more than the average home hobby mechanic.
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Recommend a ride. :mm
+1
Wish there were more like it but todays vehicles with the extensive use of electronics/LANs/modules frequently require more than the average home hobby mechanic.
On the other hand, today's vehicles need much less tinkering to run well, if you choose the right ones. I bought a 1995 Subaru Legacy station wagon and put 100K miles on top of the 130K that was already on it. The engine never gave problems. The electrical system never gave problems. The axles and CV joints were a different story but that was only because I was using it to tow trailers full of gravel and firewood. :giggles Those parts can still be repaired by a home mechanic, though.
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+1On the other hand, today's vehicles need much less tinkering to run well, if you choose the right ones. I bought a 1995 Subaru Legacy station wagon and put 100K miles on top of the 130K that was already on it. The engine never gave problems. The electrical system never gave problems. The axles and CV joints were a different story but that was only because I was using it to tow trailers full of gravel and firewood. :giggles Those parts can still be repaired by a home mechanic, though.
No head gaskets?
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No head gaskets?
Nope. Up here, head gaskets were a well-known problem with the Outback 2.5L engines. Mine had 2.2L engine. :yes We liked those.
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Read it and thought it was a lot of hippy nonsense.
When he said they stopped at the roadside to adjust the chain on his BMW, I knew it was total BS.
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Timing chain? :hehehe
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Martin, didn't you know that BMW built an overhead cam boxer engine with pushrods back in the late 60's. One of the few that were built was bought by a hippy writer.
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I've never read the book but it looks like I'll have to find a copy and give it a go. I do however refuse to buy a copy maybe our local public library has a copy. In 1937, Ernst Hene rode a supercharged 500cc overhead cam BMW 173.88 MPH, setting a world record that stood for 14 years. Ernst Hene died at the age of 100 in 2005.
Regards Martin.
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Read it and thought it was a lot of hippy nonsense.
When he said they stopped at the roadside to adjust the chain on his BMW, I knew it was total BS.
Speaking of which, this is one of the reasons I chose to buy and resurrect my K75C, with shaft drive instead of a chain. Not to mention a bunch of other advanced design features like a single sided swing arm, fuel injection, water cooling, gear indicator, side stand retractor, etc. Which makes me think it a poor decision by BMW to build so many of their models chain driven these days along with other basic/cheap features such as a traditional swing arm and forks, single disc brake up front, etc. which I think reduces them to the status of any other bargain bin bike out there.
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I've read ZAAMM several times, and found a new layer to the book every time.
On some levels, it's downright scary.
People who complain about not enough bike stuff being there seems to have clearly missed Author's Note, which is literally the first thing in the book:
What follows is based on actual occurrences. Although much has been changed for rhetorical purposes, it must be regarded in its essence as fact. However, it should in no way be associated with that great body of factual information relating to orthodox Zen Buddhist practice. It’s not very factual on motorcycles, either.
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:bmwsmile JPaganel...well stated
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Read it and thought it was a lot of hippy nonsense.
When he said they stopped at the roadside to adjust the chain on his BMW, I knew it was total BS.
The author, Robert Persig, wasn't riding a BMW; he and Chris—his son—were on a Honda Superhawk. The couple who was traveling with them was on the BMW. Persig did his own maintenance and believed it was the best course of action for riders. His companions disagreed and insisted on taking their bike to professionals if it needed maintenance.
It was a dense and difficult book for me to read—the journal of a man trying to bond with his son while engaged in a struggle with his own mental illness but when he bought that Superhawk, he was showing good judgement, that's for sure.(https://motobrick.com/gallery/4/1601-161025102602.jpeg)